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archery - "ranger" aspect arrows for water, fire, air and earth

#1
Allow archery to proc a special element arrow that (ideas ignores armor, does 20% more damage/bonus shot)
a. proc rate: (tracking or forensics or anat/) (ranger) + arms lore / 1000 (20% chance)
b. requires a reagent that matches the element/application therefore cannot be applied hidden and has an elemental charge (cannot be hidden)
c. the elemental ranger arrow is a special followup attack in pvm after your hinder procs

this could help bump up dps from 15:)

example:
a. miss
b. hit
c1. hit / hinder
c2. elemental ranger double shot (rapid fire) followup arrow that ignores armor (non-hinder arrow)
d. miss
e. hit
f. hit
 
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#2
120 tinker + 120 alchemy + 120 carp = ability to create a variety of steampunk flavor arrows. exploding arrow. homing arrow. poison gas arrow. tracer arrow. incendiary arrow. hallucination arrow. smoke bomb arrow. flashbang arrow. boomerang arrow. melty arrow. hentai arrow.

add mining and smithy = ability to create powerful armor piercing arrows. e.g. valorite arrow of exceptional piercing: punctures armor, bending the metal inwards and creating a deadly bleed DOT on any wearer until repaired. a cursed armor.

shadow arrow: this arrow is impossible to see in a dungeon due to its darkness. this arrow never misses, in a dungeon or cave.

verite arrow: this arrow has ricochet powers. it will bounce off the walls until it finally meets its target, deadlyly.

agapite arrow: this arrow makes the target fall in love, granting them a powerful buff but also maybe debuff, depending. cupids arrow. a dangerous arrow.

gold arrow: this arrow will seek out piles of gold coin in a search radius of 9000 tiles and bring back loose change. a hardworking arrow.

copper arrow: this arrow will conduct electricity. pair with volt wisp for a shockingly potent combo.

bronze arrow: this arrow comes in third.

dull copper arrow: this is the classiest arrow. it does more damage, and is faster.

iron arrow: a heavy arrow. it falls to the floor doing incredible damage, but very low range.

thank you for implementing my suggestions, mods.
 
#3
i like these. my water build eats arrows and does 20dps with (green third tier heavy bow) at near gm arch/tactics/anatomy/tracking/arms lore . it is currently expensive in pvm. i usually burn with warer tier 1 400 gold per 200 earnes in bolts or arrows sometimes 600.

maybe something that is lootable like arcane runes (crafted quiver) but affordable due to the higher costs of non stealth builds . a quiver that imbues the property (breaks hidden if active like barding songs) may help make archery due more dps.

example: quiver grants 2d8 (arrow 3d8 xbolt, 4d8 heavy) more damage in pvm (all shots). the quiver type imbues the arrow with % chance of additional flat effect (special property).

crafted quivers are priced based on common crafting costs.
 
#4
Yarg testing on test server:
a. one ancient ele is more powerful than my water aspect at level 6 (pure archer)
b. two standard eles are more powerful
c. two ancient eles are 4x more powerful
d. 1 earth is about the same damage as me

dps seems super low on anything that is not stealth archer. advise?
 
#5
I think there are a ton of ideas that could work, but realistically it'd be best to take alot of ideas, pair them down to just a couple, and do them really well. I think that would be best for the game. I would like it if there were perhaps colored shafts, and then colored 'heads' (metal). Not so interested in exploding arrows, even though its a cool idea. I prefer a bit of subtlety. Why? because if its 'too good', everyone will do it, and then every other profession will cry foul. Same ole problem.

I would not mind bleed or immolation arrows but perhaps only allow them via aspect etc....

I think I wouldn't mind damage increasing arrows/bolts if they are of enhanced material rather than just giving them a buff. Example, if you have say Valewood Arrows/Bolts - then require them to have Valewood and Valorite tips. A carpenter would complete the arrow, a smith could make the tips. shafts could be produced via carpentry and proper wood. feathers would be normal ( i think). The damage bonus on Verite/Verewood and Above should be outstanding, and thus expensive and cool. All the others should get a sensible scaled bonus (damage or other benefits, but mainly damage). As much as I like the 'effects' idea - doing that without messing something up isn't so easy - which is why I overall, prefer a simpler idea. But I'm not against effects if someone could be well rounded in consideration.
 
#7
stone harpy feathers - attach these to an arrow to make it useless. a questionable feather.
You could also make higher end feathers to be needed for enhanced arrows to be made. a bit arbitrary, but appropriate - and of course makes areas with such creatures a nice pk target :)
 
#8
combo item: attach adventurer rope to an arrow to create a grappling hook. Grapple to a dragon, you can now ride the dragon. Grapple to a dog, it becomes your pet. Grapple to a house, climb on the roof, and if it has a chimney? You can now go down the chimney, and loot the sweet contents within.

but the best is saved for last, of course.. Grapple to a boat. If you have 2 boards in your inventory they become water skis. You can now water ski. Tailors may craft a parachute, if you have a parachute, you can now parasail. While parasailing you can land on any enemy boat and cut their crew to pieces with your newbie dagger. Use scissors to cut the line, but beware, if you don't have somewhere to land you will sink to the bottom of the sea, leaving only a pathetic MiB in your wake.
 
#9
my primary problem:
a. archery in pvm is low dps without stealth aspect

b. arrows/bolts are not recovered at a high rate. i have to spend 2k in arrows to earn 4-6k profit

c. damage is on par with one hand weapons (bow/xbow) but at half speed. heavy is comparable to other two handed weapons but still slower.

d. the dps is often 10-15 only with high end gear and level 1 in any aspect that is not stealth.

e. high end mobs and archer mobs should
drop arrows/bolts in stacks of 100 like regs. often i need to carry 400-500 ammo to go out with teammates and run out


so im open to any solutions like higher recover of arrows/bolts on corpses (30%) and 5-10dps more that does not add a ton to per arrow cost.

I like the idea of special wood arrows, quivers etc as long as the price is worth it and not another gold sink where archery is further less profitable.

if arrows ignored half armor 30% ac that would be a boost in pvm and pvp) (they are naturally armor piercing. (non stackable) without being overpowered.
 
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#11
i tested level 6 water on test server... was similar to level 1 for me. i will try 10 on test thats probably a 1+ year goal for me.

QOL wise, the "low archery spikes" hit you hard (grueling pace), so maybe it would be best instead of 25-118 damage range it was 60-118 instead. Then to reduce the large gold sink unless your a stealth build, then increase arrow/bolt recovery rate by 30% when you hit target to find the ammo on their corpse.
 
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#13
Id say less dips overall would helpful to make archery effective (a smaller damage window ... 20-118 is a huge swing, a higher minimal damage would be helpful like 45-118).


I highly recommend people test archery on test center with a non stealth build. Calculate how much you spend on supplies vs reward... its usually about 50/50 split which is more expensive than any other build. If you were pked it may take you 3-5x longer than other dexxers to recover (armor/weapons) due to the low gold return rate hunting. You are lucky on an archer to net 2k an hour without level 8+ aspect gear (only effective buils is shadow + stealth) due to low speed, damage valley and high ammo cost (due to low damage spikes and low return rate on ammo). Therefore at 2k hour profit , it may take 4-6 hours to recover costs of decent crafted bow/armor

The dips in damage (when less than 50 a shot) and low ammo return cost makes you eat a ton of ammo.

In groups it is fun but still not extremely effective. In two months other than me I have seen 0 nonstealth archers in dungeons or on land. A nonstealth archer is expensive and slow.

Id like to see something with archery that increases effectiveness and reduces costs for non stealth builds. If more items at a high cost are needed to do low damage ... it will further reduce the gph effective rate from 50/50 to something even less productive.


In testing ... 25 skill in other weapons
with iron does the same or more damage as gm archery with rosewood or better without an ammo gold sink cost on top of it.
 
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#14
I'll take on that challenge, I'll use my archer mage that I made for PvP, and farm with him for an hour tonight, and will see what I can come up with for gold. It has no arms lore, and is totally gimped for PvM, but Ill bet I can get far more than 2k an hour.. that's ridiculous.

Aside from that, two things:
  1. if you increase the minimum, you increase your overall DPS, take the number your increasing it by, cut it in half, and divide by the swing speed, and you'll get your DPS spike. If you want to raise the minimum, so there is less of a fluctuation in damage, you have to lower the maximum to retain the same DPS. So in essence you want a fairly substantial DPS increase, 10 DPS on your template based on your numbers 10-15 DPS, is doubling the damage. You don't think that's an extreme request? Personally I think all your numbers are flawed.
  2. the damage range on bows is there for PvP purposes, something you don't ever test for. If you raise the overall damage of a bow, or even just raise the min / lower the max, so it's more consistent, it changes the PvP element entirely, consistent bow damage mixed with spells, it's going to be a very deadly template to face off against.
I agree fully, let us scavenge arrows, and pick some back up off the corpses, to help alleviate some costs (which btw, the cost of arrows if you actually lumberjack, and farm feathers is next to nothing). But if you toy with base damage of bows, you are going to unbalance a lot of things, the only way to really "fix" archers is through PvM aspect suits, that way they don't impact PvP at all. I know that's not the answer you want, because you think a 7x GM archer, should be able to compete with high end tamer & summoner builds.. Even those tamers & summoners are themselves wearing aspects... But that's the reality of it.
 
#15
a Tamer/summoner is at least 3x more powerful than a pure archer.

Please do your test without the pvp combo(bow cast bow cast).

For the minimum damage increase Id like it for pvm only (possibly stacks damage better once hindered) or via quiver/new item (better damage overall pvm). However if it requires 2-5gp more per shot (new item) the archer would net 0 profit (especially on land).
 
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#16
During my test for low/easy solo spawn creeps, I averaged 500gp/5min which I'm happy with. I hit a very good streak of medium/high damage and low misses (less of the bad misses). In that sense I like the RNG/dice like DND (sometimes I roll bad, average or amazing), possibly the #1 issue is simply the constant feeding of bolts/arrows for non-stealth builds which ended up being 30% of my profit (not 50%). Having 5-10 bolts on 25% of corpses (<100 gp tier), 20 arrows/bolts (<300gp tier), 50 bolts/arrows (300-500gp tier) and 100 bolts/arrows (demons etc) would be helpful or 30% of your hits end up on the corpse and 20% of your misses. (this or the damage is too inconsistent/slow/low that you waste more ammo)

The GPH will decrease if you are unable to kill the creature efficiently solo (I can't do demons, lesser demons etc). I would be curious what you were able to solo efficiently .

test:
fighting 50gp-100gp spawns (a good fit)
-500/5min (6k/hr)

bolts: 75 shots (150gp) /5min = 12*75 (900 bolts/1800gp an hour)


I am unable to solo most tiers with a pure archer solo past 300gp+ tier drops (but this design works better paired with other people whic his great for that level of farming)

when solo you will use more bolts. while partying you hope to stun (or if stealth do burst damage).

from what what i tested, if fighting something with more armor or hp, the GPH will drop since you will spend more bolts to earn 125-175gp. (which is maybe why earlier i wanted to see more base damage , because i was fighting monsters with higher ar/hp which tend to eat alot of bolts)

AFTER: i added 50 carpentry for another 12.5% and the damage felt better going (28-141) to 31-154

last test: went from rosewood to blue/vale bow.... no difference in minimum damage (31), max went up i think 7 . It would of been great to see minimum go up 1 per wood type. That would smooth it a ton.

p
 
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