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Artisan Aspect Armor - levelable by crafting please

#21
I would love that.
Or as I said you could only xp from vere or vale mats, or just crafting 110 or 120 items, or just items using MCD... There is a lot of things to think of.
I just think it's unfair to obligate crafters to hit mobs to xp their aspect gear
 
#22
I like the idea of such a forge like...

But i say it again: What sense does Aspect armor have of a 5xGM crafter char? If I understand the idea correctly then Aspect armor is meant for the active pvm fight. So this new Gear is designed for Templates like: Ana Heal Tactics Mace Tracking Mining Lumber

This gear is too powerful to get leveled with bot-farmed mats.
 

Jack

Journeyman
#23
Pvm is the core of UO. Pvp is the spice that keeps it interesting. And merchanting is the lubricant that keeps the wheels of the economy turning. Crafter is the commonly used turn, but crafting is only one part of being a merchant. Keeping vendors well stocked and meeting harvesters and pvmers to buy materials, it all takes time.

I have over one hundred stock keeping units. I do things that are not commonly seen on vendors like bulk kegs, bulk suits, bulk pvp weapons, a dedicated fishing vendor and a garden center.

I can't keep doing what I do and go pvm to level up an artisan suit; there are not enough hours in the day. I could drop some vendors and the server would not suffer greatly, but I fill a niche that most players choose not to serve. I enjoy what I do and every minute of my play time since launch has been dedicated to building my business. I have very little gold and my personal house is small. What I have is a loyal customer base that I give excellent service to.

And I can't not have a leveled artisan suit. The extra exceptional chance on valorite tinkered tools is huge and if my competitors have it then I need it too. Am I to tell customers I can't sell avarite armor because I lack a leveled artisan suit?
 
#24
I'm a pure crafter and these two aspect sets are a slap in the face.

An even bigger slap in the face is people telling me I have to be some sort of PvM crafter build to harvest and craft properly because they do, and it's obviously the best and only way to do it. I also get you should spread them out to finish more society tasks, well guess what? I did that too but I also made them pure crafters, so thanks for that suggestion.
 
#25
I'm a pure crafter and these two aspect sets are a slap in the face.

An even bigger slap in the face is people telling me I have to be some sort of PvM crafter build to harvest and craft properly because they do, and it's obviously the best and only way to do it. I also get you should spread them out to finish more society tasks, well guess what? I did that too but I also made them pure crafters, so thanks for that suggestion.
Thank you for offering up more suggestions on how this can be fixed to meet your desires, as opposed to just complaining and bitching.
 
#27
I dont get the afk macro part of the discussion here. The time investment is what time you put gathering the resources to get your own materials or to get gold to buy them - the time which is substantial. Using those materials is a minor part of the process. On a side note, iron should give little or no gain which really means there wont be much AFKing - nobody has that much colored materials. Leveling aspect gear by crafting exceptional stuff from colored materials will be a huge effort, and to say that it can be done mostly AFK is just a misunderstanding of the process as a whole. Not to mention that it will likely be a net loss, just as all crafting skills are, due to wasting materials for a small chance for increased excep chance in the long run. This would not be a free way for crafters to get rich, this is an extremely costly way for crafters to invest more in their characters doing the thing they want, namely craft and gather - not pvm.
 
#28
I dont get the afk macro part of the discussion here. The time investment is what time you put gathering the resources to get your own materials or to get gold to buy them - the time which is substantial. Using those materials is a minor part of the process. On a side note, iron should give little or no gain which really means there wont be much AFKing - nobody has that much colored materials. Leveling aspect gear by crafting exceptional stuff from colored materials will be a huge effort, and to say that it can be done mostly AFK is just a misunderstanding of the process as a whole. Not to mention that it will likely be a net loss, just as all crafting skills are, due to wasting materials for a small chance for increased excep chance in the long run. This would not be a free way for crafters to get rich, this is an extremely costly way for crafters to invest more in their characters doing the thing they want, namely craft and gather - not pvm.
I can certainly get behind the idea of only gaining XP off of colored material use - that seems a viable way to curb the afk / cheap mindless macros of crafting/recycling hundreds of thousands of iron ore.. I still like the aspect forge idea in dungeons though :)
 
#30
Every one of you HAD to have looked at the skills list before you created your crafters... at the very least before you skilled them to GM and higher. There is no way you could have missed the PvM advantages most crafting and harvesting skills are gifted with here on Outlands. Those who made a 5x120 did so as a conscious decision; that being they would rather choose to not PvM with their crafters. We all make decisions that might be hard to live with in the future, but this is UO so it should come as no surprise that some of you find yourselves in this position.

The Aspect gear recently introduced extends this trend into PvMing Crafters/Gatherers... how is this a surprise to any of you? Staff made it pretty clear (at least in my eyes) what direction they were looking at for adding versatility to crafters/gatherers.

As I mentioned before, I also would like to see some kind of tie-in to gathering and crafting having an impact on leveling up this gear; but am perfectly satisfied with this armor as-is... because the writing has been on the wall for well over a year.

Also, any "advantage" my PvMing crafters might have over someone's 5x120 will most probably be undetectable; I'm pretty sure folks holding onto this arguement are putting more faith in the armor bonuses than this set deserves.

One final note: A couple of days ago, we all had nothing. Now, for free and without much solicitation, we have aspect armor sets specifically designed for Outlands-style crafters and gatherers, and I for one appreciate that. It may not be perfect for everyone... what what is?
 

Jack

Journeyman
#31
Griz - The advantages of crafting skills on a pvm character were obvious. But it's a huge leap of imagination to foresee that crafting would require pvm.

The advantage of up to a 20% bonus to exceptional chance is HUGE.
 
#32
Every one of you HAD to have looked at the skills list before you created your crafters... at the very least before you skilled them to GM and higher. There is no way you could have missed the PvM advantages most crafting and harvesting skills are gifted with here on Outlands. Those who made a 5x120 did so as a conscious decision; that being they would rather choose to not PvM with their crafters. We all make decisions that might be hard to live with in the future, but this is UO so it should come as no surprise that some of you find yourselves in this position.
We did, and considering that benefited only those wishing to PvM with their crafting characters, the vast majority of people decided to make pure crafting characters, and pure PvM characters. The problem is, now the armor "specifically designed for Outlands-style crafters and gathers" doesn't benefit most crafters. It's for the few people who want to take their tailorer into battle. Like Jack pointed out, training crafting skill to benefit your PvM character was an option, but there was no indication you'd need PvM skills to benefit your crafter.

This is UO. The reason I play it is because I don't have to PvM. Crafting is actually a useful and viable part of the game. As someone else said, this is really just a huge slap in the face to people who have put in the time, effort, and real world cash to build their characters. Had this been introduced from the beginning I'd understand your argument, but for whatever reason they waited long enough for people to get their characters built and then said "Haha nope! Have fun doing that all over again!"
 
#33
Griz - The advantages of crafting skills on a pvm character were obvious. But it's a huge leap of imagination to foresee that crafting would require pvm.

The advantage of up to a 20% bonus to exceptional chance is HUGE.
Keep in mind it is a 20% bonus to the base exceptional chance (for Tier 10). So if your exceptional chance was 50%, Level 10 gear would boost that to 60%. That is not a HUGE bump for armor that will take a lot of effort to level up to Tier 10. I think your assertion that "crafting will require PvM" is a bit of a stretch. I still believe that people in this armor won't have any kind of significant advantage over crafters without the armor; so you should feel confident that you will compete just fine whether you choose to PvM or not.

At this point, it might be a good idea to just do away with any "crafting bonus" imparted by the armor and just stick with enhancing the benefits of PvMing in gear you can craft. This way, both "traditional" crafters, and PvM crafters will be on the same level in that regard.

Anyway, I'm sure the developers will find a solution that will make everyone happy... ... ...
 

Jack

Journeyman
#34
At this point, it might be a good idea to just do away with any "crafting bonus" imparted by the armor and just stick with enhancing the benefits of PvMing in gear you can craft. This way, both "traditional" crafters, and PvM crafters will be on the same level in that regard.
Yes
 
#35
This is the worst idea i've seen so far. If you do it like this, afk macroing/gathering bots win.

Also, in regards to people bringing up the 5x120 crafter template... Plan ahead, split your crafting skills over your accounts. Not only will you be able to complete more sociaties, but your templates suddenly allows pvm. They clearly made an effort to integrate crafting skills into pvm. As with the armor, there only 1 bonus in regards to crafting, all the rest is pvm as well.
This. With the way MCD's work in regard to crafting addons the actual need to be multi-GM in craft skills on a single character was all but removed, to my knowledge.

@GrizzlysGhost - I will also echo your statements on character planning/etc. I haven't made much progress, but I'm intentionally taking everything slow on Outlands.

I think it's reasonable that a person who makes a crafter does not want to have to go and do some very serious PvM, and not on your gatherer either. It's more normal to not have PvM skills on your crafter.
Is it "more normal", though? My only 2 GM Crafters on EA shards were both on Siege and both full-blown dexxers who harvested much or all of their own materials:

Mace/Tact/Anat/Heal/Hide/Mine/Smith - Cub'dub/GM Smith/Shadowclan Orcs (went red on day 1 of creation) - one of my favorite UO characters, ever.
Fencer/Tailor w/ some Magery & Hiding - Capo Ferro GM Tailor

I never had a "super mule" until playing on RunUO shards, personally. I looked at Outlands as a chance to make more characters like the ones I listed above, even if others would consider them less than optimal or non-efficient.

What defines normalcy?

I do feel for those who invested tons of time, energy, gold, etc into making their Mule Crafters, but I don't think allowing those types to potentially afk craft in a safe spot to level their Aspect is a good answer. I also agree that if available at launch, folks might have done things differently. Currently, Aspect progression is handled at the character level - does it make sense to place it at the account level, or is that an even bigger can of worms to open?

I don't envy the position of Staff or those with multi-GM crafters currently :confused:

Good luck to you all.