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Blade Spirits / Summons

#1
Blade spirits currently attack the summoner and other blue players (even while non-criminal and non-murderer). I'm not sure if this is an intended change or not. Additionally, blade spirits require 2 stable slots when normally they require 1. Energy vortexes are much stronger and require the same number of stable slots (they also attack the summoner/friendlies).

Blade spirits are one of the few bread and butter skills for new players that decide to play as mages. Blade spirits being a 5th circle spell, and being able to have 5 summons out, made this spell ideal for mages to cast until they could use higher level summons like earth/water elementals. 

If blade spirits attack the summoner, as well as making the summoner become a criminal if the blade spirit attacks an enemy, on top of them requiring 2 stable slots, is a huge huge nerf to magery. Currently, I don't see starting on the server as a mage to be cost effective or viable if blade spirits exist in their current form for launch.

The only alternative to blade spirits, for new mages, is summon creature. Luckily it appears that some of the newer mobs were added to summon creature, and the stable slots required haven't been increased, which makes it more viable. However, the gold drops in the new player dungeon, as well as other dungeons may make starting as a mage much more difficult as the mobs may not drop enough gold to make up for the costs of summons (and that's not even factoring in gold lost from dying/being murdered). Killing a mongbat that drops 3 gold actually is a net loss in gold, so hopefully the gold drops in the new player dungeon will be re-tuned.


TAMING:
Pets don't resort to their last command upon finishing a previous command. Example, if you use "all guard" or "all follow" and then "all kill", you must type "all follow" or "all guard" again for them to resume guarding/following you. Fixing this would be a huge QoL improvement for tamers/mage summons.
 
#2
I agree that starting mages without support will be tough. But keep in mind you have the potential of rolling a character with a 750-charge spell stone in your bag (one charge per spell circle). Used wisely, you will be able to create enough gold to support your magery and get you to a level high enough to keep you going. (No reagents are required when using the stone, so all gold farmed can go toward missing spells for your spellbook). Consider training up a weapons skill or forensics to make the going a bit easier. There is a lot to experiment with, good luck!
 
#3
GrizzlysGhost said:
I agree that starting mages without support will be tough.  But keep in mind you have the potential of rolling a character with a 750-charge spell stone in your bag (one charge per spell circle).  Used wisely, you will be able to create enough gold to support your magery and get you to a level high enough to keep you going.  (No reagents are required when using the stone, so all gold farmed can go toward missing spells for your spellbook).  Consider training up a weapons skill or forensics to make the going a bit easier.  There is a lot to experiment with, good luck!
I think the spellstone will definitely help. I've heard Owen mention that some of the new mobs don't drop the correct amount of gold though. I assume some of the mobs in the newb dungeon are custom scripted, as they are more passive and don't aggro as quickly as other mobs. Hopefully they will drop more gold than they currently do, as currently I think even dexxers will barely break even killing mongbats in the newb dungeon once bandage costs are factored in.
 

Owyn

Administrator
Staff member
#4
The loot values in terms of gold are correct for the most part, unless there is a specific balance issue we're adjusting. (ie: a creature with an AOE attack that doesn't factor automatically into our difficulty scalar.)

There is a trade off in the new player dungeon: low loot, but enhanced skillgain.  You will gain 10x faster in the new player dungeon up to 70 in a skill, but gold is low.
 
#5
Wyrm said:
Blade spirits currently attack the summoner and other blue players (even while non-criminal and non-murderer). I'm not sure if this is an intended change or not. Additionally, blade spirits require 2 stable slots when normally they require 1. Energy vortexes are much stronger and require the same number of stable slots (they also attack the summoner/friendlies).

Blade spirits are one of the few bread and butter skills for new players that decide to play as mages. Blade spirits being a 5th circle spell, and being able to have 5 summons out, made this spell ideal for mages to cast until they could use higher level summons like earth/water elementals. 

If blade spirits attack the summoner, as well as making the summoner become a criminal if the blade spirit attacks an enemy, on top of them requiring 2 stable slots, is a huge huge nerf to magery. Currently, I don't see starting on the server as a mage to be cost effective or viable if blade spirits exist in their current form for launch.

The only alternative to blade spirits, for new mages, is summon creature. Luckily it appears that some of the newer mobs were added to summon creature, and the stable slots required haven't been increased, which makes it more viable. However, the gold drops in the new player dungeon, as well as other dungeons may make starting as a mage much more difficult as the mobs may not drop enough gold to make up for the costs of summons (and that's not even factoring in gold lost from dying/being murdered). Killing a mongbat that drops 3 gold actually is a net loss in gold, so hopefully the gold drops in the new player dungeon will be re-tuned.


TAMING:
Pets don't resort to their last command upon finishing a previous command. Example, if you use "all guard" or "all follow" and then "all kill", you must type "all follow" or "all guard" again for them to resume guarding/following you. Fixing this would be a huge QoL improvement for tamers/mage summons.
I agree.  I mentioned this in one of my suggestions as well.  I always thought you could have 5 blade spirits.  I also don't think you should go grey when your blade spirit attacks someone.  If you are going to be criminal for your blade spirit's actions...  One would assume you have control over your blade spirit.   If your blade spirit also decides to attack you, you do not have control over its actions, therefore should not be held accountable for its actions.
 
#6
Ohh please, ofc blade sprits and EW kill any one in its way. that is a big part of the game. Please dont make it any easier for mages.
 
#7
Ohh please, ofc blade sprits and EW kill any one in its way. that is a big part of the game. Please dont make it any easier for mages.
I don't think there is any way you could have tried BS or EVs on outlands and have this opinion, they are extremely weak.

@OP
When you are starting on outlands, you can level most skills to 50-60 in a very short time, no template should gimp themselves starting out and not utilizing as many skills as they can to get their start.
 
#8
I don't think there is any way you could have tried BS or EVs on outlands and have this opinion, they are extremely weak.

@OP
When you are starting on outlands, you can level most skills to 50-60 in a very short time, no template should gimp themselves starting out and not utilizing as many skills as they can to get their start.

Ofc. not. but i will when they release the game. and by then can use BS an EV as i allways has been.
 
#9
From what i recall i thought BS and EV always attacked anything in its path including often times the summoner... Also I second Dirk, BS and EV are not as strong on Outlands as on previous shards that I have played... Finally, the skill grind here is going to be much more difficult and costly. Summon Mages much like Tamers are very viable farming toons therefore i dont think it should be easy to gm as indicated in my journey on taming... If i have to spend 36 hours taming to GM, I imagine you shuold have to spend an equal time farming to get the reags to GM Magery.. give or take.. I believe someone has already posted somewhere the magery guide and current cost.
 
#10
I assume you are coming from another line of shards other than IPY/An Corp, because on those shards BS/EV have always been wild summons that attack anything close to them including causing criminality. Also never was the case that you could have 5 BS.

In general it works fine to have it like that, but it depends a bit on how BS/EV aggro is handled. Once BS/EV aggros an NPC target, they should stick to that target pretty much until the target dies, or if the target vanishes for other reasons (is invis'd by other players, for example). This means that A) You can pretty much only aggro other players at the moment when you cast your BS/EV or B) if someone invis your mob to get your BS/EV to aggro, then they will be gray themselves first due to invising a monster (so you'll flag on them, but you won't be criminal yourself). This assumes of course that C) You dispel your BS/EV when it's close to killing something.

I have tried them a bit here on Outlands, but only enough to notice that they are extremely weak and probably not a viable farming option, I didn't dig deep into aggro.
 
#11
@Tucan Sam
Not knowing the farming rates of tamers vs mages here on Outlands, I'm going to make an assumption that I suspect to be correct, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but tamers are going to farm at a much faster rate than mages ever will, and will be farming during passive gains, thus you will come out well off with taming. A mage will train their skill by farming mobs, and all the gold they make will likely go back into buying reagents. A tamer has one resource requirement to his taming, time. A mage has reagent costs, and time. Why do you think leveling a mage should be equivalent?

All things being equal, farming rates, and everything else, I entirely agree they should take an equivalent amount of time.. But all things aren't equal.
 
#12
I think the impression that they're weak just comes down to the fact that all the gold-bearing mobs are extremely tanky compared to most servers. It's the fact that the damage from them isn't scaled to the amount of hits mobs have now that makes them weak.
 
#13
I think the impression that they're weak just comes down to the fact that all the gold-bearing mobs are extremely tanky compared to most servers. It's the fact that the damage from them isn't scaled to the amount of hits mobs have now that makes them weak.
No you yourself can tank them like they are nothing