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don't waste your time on a summoner

#41
When fighting frost demons they usually kill 3 of my demons before it goes down. That’s 150 charges. But who knows maybe I’m doing it wrong.
To be honest I don't know what 150 charges is or what it takes to accumulate it, but if that mob drops 1200-1800 gold like the one vampire in mausoleum, then that is how it should be IMO. I'm sure you're just staying in the back of the battlefield summoning new demons at no risk of dying. If that's a very high tier mob that drops 1k+, I think that's a fair price to pay. If tamers aren't paying a similar price, this should be a nerf tamer thread not a buff summoner thread :).
 
#42
People are going to continue to complain because of how strong tamers are. They outpace any other build in potential gold by a pretty good margin. They get tons of cool pets and all sorts of options. Then the dev's come on and say summoners are too strong!

That's def going to rub some people the wrong way.
I play a tamer and have made less than 100k total since launch so I just have to roll my eyes at this. Meanwhile every summoner I know has three houses and aspect gear.
 
#44
if they play 5 times more as you they farm more
That's what I mean, people keep making all these assumptions about tamers based on the earnings of a few players that play 24/7. It's ridiculous. Some of us have limited play time and we might spend three hours of it trying to train taming and not getting a single gain, or making any gold either.
 
#45
Considering charges are harder to get now, has anyone tried actually healing the summoned pets?

The issue I have with summoners is that they can send their pets in at absolutely no risk, let them die, and just summon a new one. It takes the "all kill no skill" criticism to the next level... it is about as mindlessly easy as you can get. It probably isn't completely unfair to require summoners to do something--whether it's healing their pets or farming up charges--to keep the constant stream of ancient deamons going.
 
#46
Yeah because casting a healing spell is so much more skillful than casting a summon again.

It’s sometimes better to let them die due to the time limit. I’d rather start with a fresh demon timer than keep one alive.
 
#47
when i read this i wonder what their design thoughts were when they made these summon changes of vanilla uo.
even in vanilla i used to think that having 2 daemons casting and hitting for you was kinda silly but had the disadvantage of being freely attackable.
something tells me that you should probably try to heal them now since theyre not rednamed (chaotic) anymore.
then the previous poster says its better to let them die due to time limitations and then theres also the out of mana factor speaking for it.
i see 2 design choices that this could go towards:

1: healable and mana leeching decent duration = veterinary required and so 300 skillpoints used. <- investment vs reward working
2: dont heal, dont care, short duration = less skill investment so it should be less powerful. <- investment vs reward working

maybe im just not seeing trough this as i dont have a summoner lol, sorry for wasting time in that case.
 
#48
It’s sometimes better to let them die due to the time limit. I’d rather start with a fresh demon timer than keep one alive.
Yes, it is SOMETIMES better to let them die. That means that at other times, it is better NOT to let them die. For example, when they still have time on their timer and you need to conserve charges.
 
#49
Yes, it is SOMETIMES better to let them die. That means that at other times, it is better NOT to let them die. For example, when they still have time on their timer and you need to conserve charges.
Agreed, but that scenario is less often now due to 3 minutes being taken off of summon timer.
 
#50
I ran my summoner again last night, and I'll continue to do so every night because I enjoy it.. I was farming daemons, because that's the common complaint most have.. I can drop an infernal, drowned, frost, or regular daemon in about 75% of the health of one daemon, I run mage/med/eval/wrestle/scribe/spirit/forensics. Maybe the 40% damage is helping more than I figure it would, but it's also filling a stone about 60% of the way. So I can easily get a new daemon up, after every daemon I kill.

I've enjoyed the recent changes, because I too have constantly said all kill is just a lame playstyle, and unfortunately that's a summoner too.. after the last couple of patches, I now have to watch the health of a daemon, juggle timers, pull the weaker one off sometimes, if I want to keep my daemons up and fighting, and not run out of summoning power. I'm good with this, it makes the game far more engaging.. But I have definitely not felt any loss in my ability to farm these high end mobs, after the recent changes, just a change to how I play it.

A basic summoner, with no extra damage, or utility, really should have some struggles with this stuff.
 
#51
Do you know how much time it takes to gm tame ?!!!!? The good pets are 115-120 tame it's gonna be EXPENSIVE and time consuming to get there. And as stated above 300 skill points vs 100. So yes a tamer is op. But also the hardest pve char to build
 
#53
Do you know how much time it takes to gm tame ?!!!!? The good pets are 115-120 tame it's gonna be EXPENSIVE and time consuming to get there. And as stated above 300 skill points vs 100. So yes a tamer is op. But also the hardest pve char to build
My thoughts is that taming being super hard to train and super OP once you have it is an old school idea steeped in nothing but tradition for traditions sake. Make taming easier, and make it more competitive with other pvm specs. I don't want to play yet another server where pve is nothing but tamers and more tamers because it's the only viable end game option.
 
#54
My thoughts is that taming being super hard to train and super OP once you have it is an old school idea steeped in nothing but tradition for traditions sake. Make taming easier, and make it more competitive with other pvm specs. I don't want to play yet another server where pve is nothing but tamers and more tamers because it's the only viable end game option.
It isn't the only viable end game option here though. It's probably not even the most viable. Go to a corrupted shrine and count how many tamers you see, vs how many summoners. Tamers kinda have the worst of both worlds here: not OP, but still super hard (and expensive) to train. Which is just bad design imo.
 
#55
It isn't the only viable end game option here though. It's probably not even the most viable. Go to a corrupted shrine and count how many tamers you see, vs how many summoners. Tamers kinda have the worst of both worlds here: not OP, but still super hard (and expensive) to train. Which is just bad design imo.
Well I didn't say it was the only viable template here, just that I don't want it to be. And quantity doesn't necessarily mean better, if there are more summoners it may simply be because it's easier to train. Basically I am saying that there is no reason for training taming to be that time consuming relative to other specs, outside of 'because that's the way it's always been'.
 
#56
Do you know how much time it takes to gm tame ?!!!!? The good pets are 115-120 tame it's gonna be EXPENSIVE and time consuming to get there. And as stated above 300 skill points vs 100. So yes a tamer is op. But also the hardest pve char to build
Find me a 100 skill template that lets you cast OP ancient daemons please?
 
#58
Forgive me. It's been awhile since I've had a tamer. Over 10 years.

Can you tame with animal taming and animal lore? That's 200 skill points. What else is required? I suppose veterinary, right? 300. So what else do you HAVE to have?
 
#59
Forgive me. It's been awhile since I've had a tamer. Over 10 years.

Can you tame with animal taming and animal lore? That's 200 skill points. What else is required? I suppose veterinary, right? 300. So what else do you HAVE to have?
That's it. Takes the same amount of skills as a summoner IMO. Just like it would be silly to be a tamer without vet, it would also be silly to be a summoner without meditation. And one of the main reason gaining taming is harder is because it can't be gained with an afk macro. Magery actually takes a pretty long time to gain here, and not an insignificant gold investment as well. I am a pretty casual player and I am only mid 80s in magery after a month since launch since I am not a fan of afk macroing.
 
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#60
That's it. Takes the same amount of skills as a summoner IMO. Just like it would be silly to be a tamer without vet, it would also be silly to be a summoner without meditation. And one of the main reason gaining taming is harder is because it can't be gained with an afk macro. Magery actually takes a pretty long time to gain here, and not an insignificant gold investment as well. I am a pretty casual player and I am only mid 80s in magery after a month since launch since I am not a fan of afk macroing.
That's what my suspicion was.

I've no problem with summoning being weaker than taming. But how much weaker? Certainly not drastically so. I can even see a decent amount weaker, as to get ancient demons requires a quick casting. But drastically weaker? That seems absurd to me.

It seems to be that people who play tamers have a strong contingent of people who whine about everything.