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don't waste your time on a summoner

#61
I've no problem with summoning being weaker than taming. But how much weaker? Certainly not drastically so. I can even see a decent amount weaker, as to get ancient demons requires a quick casting. But drastically weaker? That seems absurd to me.
I'm not sure if I'm reading your post right, so forgive me if I'm not. I just rolled outta bed.

As far as I can tell summoners AREN'T drastically weaker than tamers. I see them holding down the spot I farm on my tamer just fine and they're definitely way more versatile. Since we're so set on the "required skills" let's do a little comparison:

2 characters, one has JUST taming/lore/vet one has JUST magery/med/ss - which do you choose? IMHO the answer is obvious; the mage.

The mage can just do so much more. Heal/cure, recall, gate, res, invis, bless, reactive armor, magic reflect, create food, etc. It can even dish out more DPS without eval if its called for. So with all of that extra stuff the base skills of a summer can do, why should the DPS/tankability of the deamons match a tamer who can't do anything besides all kill/heal his pets?

But then again, I'm just a whiny tamer. *sigh*
 
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#62
I'm not sure if I'm reading your post right, so forgive me if I'm not. I just rolled outta bed.

But then again, I'm just a whiny tamer. *sigh*
Yeah, take a moment to wake up and shake the sleepy eyes.

What I am seeing is tamers complaining about summoners and wanting something done about summoners.

Tamers are already superior farmers. All I am saying is we don't need to nerf summoners any more.

You have more than 300 skills to make your tamer more viable still.
 
#63
What I am seeing is tamers complaining about summoners and wanting something done about summoners.
Funny because I see more summoners complaining about their template being nerfed. Hell, it's the entire basis of the OP.

But if what you're saying is summoners are in a fine place atm then we agree.

I play a tamer and have made less than 100k total since launch so I just have to roll my eyes at this. Meanwhile every summoner I know has three houses and aspect gear.
This guy has openly stated he can barely afford to keep up with reg/bandaid costs on his tamer- which imho makes him too noob to even have a say on the matter.

You have more than 300 skills to make your tamer more viable still.
Of course, and so do summoners ... but people seemed to be stuck on comparing the base requirements for each template, so I was just sharing my point of view on the matter.
 
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#66
Point-to-point comparisons don't make sense in UO. They ignore the context of a full build, and are way more misleading than they are helpful to a balance discussion. These comparisons are pretty much always used by someone with an agenda.
 
#68
Are they supposed to be terrible?

They certainly aren't as good as tamers. A grandmaster tamer is much better.

All this says is that more people play mages than tamers.
 
#69
This guy has openly stated he can barely afford to keep up with reg/bandaid costs on his tamer- which imho makes him too noob to even have a say on the matter.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that not all tamers are making mils?

Maybe an example will help. Yesterday I had three hours to play. I spent two hours training taming and got .1 gains and roughly 1k gold. Then I farmed for an hour while bonding a new pet. Dungeons were too crazy so I tried a fairly lowkey overland spot. Within 15 minutes I was pk'd and dry looted. Moved to another spot that was even less lucrative but safer. Made around 3k gold and logged out.

With only a few hours to play, 95 taming, slow/weak pets, no weapon skills to boost damage, and reds running through every dungeon, where are the millions supposed to come from exactly?
 
#70
Why is it so hard for you to understand that not all tamers are making mils?
Why is it so hard for you to understand there is some middle ground between not being able to afford your regs/bandages and being Stormay?

He is one end of the spectrum you are the other.
 
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#71
Why is it so hard for you to understand there is some middle ground between not being able to afford your regs/bandages and being Stormay?

He is one end of the spectrum you are the other.
I do understand that -- that's actually why I posted in this thread, to bring some balance to the conversation because people were calling for even more tamer nerfs, saying we "outpace any other build in potential gold by a wide margin," etc. That might be (and really should be) true of a 120 tamer or close to it, but many of us are a long way from that and just trying to get by.
 
#73
Maybe there's some way the guys could add something in that at least partially refreshes a summon's uptime through healing them.. or maybe that's a really bad idea
 

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#74
Just for some actual feedback not hyperbole.

I watched a fully decked out scribe summoner, and a decently geared tamer with mid/top end pets, they both engaged top end spawn simultaneously (that was nice of them!!) and the Tamer killed the mob with the summoner about 10% in the top end spawns HP remaining.

That seems pretty solid to me considering the summoner had to find a mage shop for his few regs and summon stones, versus the tamer having to actually care about HP/his pets stats when taming etcetc.
 
#76
versus the tamer having to actually care about HP/his pets stats when taming etcetc.
Well for what it's worth...

As a summoner I definitely have to keep an eye on my pets hp. They are not necessarily an unlimited resource you can just mindlessly throw at things. You have to make sure they aren't taking damage too evenly because if they die at the same time you'll be in trouble. 50 mana is nothing to sneeze at either and if you are flamestriking you have to make sure you have mana ready for when one of your pets die. You should also definitely be curing your daemons if they get a high level poison. I also often cast arch protection and bless on them. I rename them sometimes so that if an add spawns I can cover it, or back one demon off to make sure the other has aggro etc.
 
#77
As much as this pains me to say....

In a perfect world, a tamer should be stronger then a summoner.

I got tired of trying to eek out cash via either straight mage or straight dexxer(I came here to PvP so making a PvM toon was the last thing on my mind.

Within 24 hours of starting the character, boom, was out there killing the big stuff in the game. Doubt thats the same experience most tamers have.

The way I look at it is Summoners are quick to make, but require a lot more resources spent to make money.

Tamers take a lot longer to get up, but the end result is they don't require as many resources to do their thing.

It pains me more on this server that in order to make money at a good clip, you have to be either a bard, a tamer, or a summoner, or a mix of the 3.

Give me the good old days where I could farm just fine on my Tank Mage.
 
#78
As much as this pains me to say....

In a perfect world, a tamer should be stronger then a summoner.

I got tired of trying to eek out cash via either straight mage or straight dexxer(I came here to PvP so making a PvM toon was the last thing on my mind.

Within 24 hours of starting the character, boom, was out there killing the big stuff in the game. Doubt thats the same experience most tamers have.

The way I look at it is Summoners are quick to make, but require a lot more resources spent to make money.

Tamers take a lot longer to get up, but the end result is they don't require as many resources to do their thing.

It pains me more on this server that in order to make money at a good clip, you have to be either a bard, a tamer, or a summoner, or a mix of the 3.

Give me the good old days where I could farm just fine on my Tank Mage.
Even on osi, a bard or tamer could out farm a tank mage by miles.
 
#79
Even on osi, a bard or tamer could out farm a tank mage by miles.
I think you missed the point. A tank mage is severely gimped here for farming. You pretty much have to have a farming toon here to get ahead.

On osi I could sit there and farm lich lords all day long on my tank mage. Try farming demons here on a tank mage tell me how that works for ya.

This is the first time I have ever made anything other then a tank mage, never had to on OSI, and I for one am pretty happy with the summoner.