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Make the New Aspect Gear Stealable

#1
Just learnt that the new aspect gear cannot be stolen, that is, the underlying weapon/armor that has been made aspect. This is laughable. Any weapon can now be made thief-proof, even if you don't care going for full gear or not. Obviously these things must be stealable, now that aspect users got their new safe system and all.
 
#2
Agreed, if it can become yours via killing someone, why is it not stealable?


This is a game about risk vs reward and this system takes out a risk in one specific scenario
 

Rydia

Apprentice
#3
I agree.

This was supposed looking it would be a nice patch for thieves since finally it means people wouldn't have all blessed gear and maybe would use a magic weapon in dungeons and so on, compared to before when there is nothing really worth stealing on a player except the occasional aspect thing (unless you just really love stealing 100gp in regs or whatever). Discovering that this system thief-proofs weapons is a big let down especially for those of us who manually click bags after the snoop throttle patch happened, which was a rather large thief nerf.

It is understandable why the weapons are non-stealable, because yeah, I guess it would be pretty lame to lose a aspect activation because someone stole your GM war hammer while you were demonstrating your leet potion drinking abilities.

But can't there be some compromise here?

What if the thief can steals the weapon, but the activation is returned to the player?

I try to consider any exploits this might have and cannot think of any meaningful ones. I guess a player could use this to de-aspect a fire sword and re-apply that activation as water sword or whatever, but is that really a huge deal? Probably not. If there is something else I am overlooking please let me know.

If there is a nice weapon that I would like to (try) and steal, which can be challenging most dexers don't really disarm at all except perhaps on overworld, this new non-stealable aspect system is simply going to force me to PK them and take everything (and they lose their activations entirely) compared to me just taking their weapon.

Thanks
 
#4
Agreed with the activation refund if stolen.

If left the way it currently is, it also means that as the server progresses, more and more of the playerbase will have their magic items thief-proof.

It's already difficult to steal weapons and not even all thief builds are even capable of forcibly doing so, and equipped armor is already impossible to steal.
 
#5
To me there is a huge conflict in theory/vision on why the changes were made to the aspect system. If the idea was to unbless items, so that they would get consumed, and it would give a boon to the economy of crafted & magic items, then I don't understand why those items are protected from thieves.
  1. If the fear is that disarm thieves will run around wrecking someone's aspect time, then return the aspect charge and let thieves do their thing, and let's follow with the principle of the changes, to have a turn over on some of these items.
  2. If the fear is that on recall an item drops to the pack, and a thief will steal their item, then make any item that gets unequipped, through disarm or recall, protected for 5 seconds, and lets move along.
I fear that if we are willing to concede this point to anti-thieves, then when will we be conceding the point to PK's, and be protecting all aspect items in the new system as well? I mean, a PK can ruin your aspect farming time - maybe it's true that a thief can do it, without any real protection against it, so then build the protection in against the cheesy ways they could ruin it, and if a person sits with an item too long in their pack, then yoink..
 
#6
You're being too lenient master Kidden! "If the fear...", "If the fear...". There shouldn't be a protection for 5 secs on disarm or recall, in the first case the thief charges head on and should be rewarded for that, in the second the victim can run off and recall instead of staying at the same spot where he just killed some mob, it's in the hands of the player.
 
#7
I disagree, any solo thief running around that can just disarm, and steal my weapon with a macro, while I can't even re-equip the item for 5 seconds, gives me no recourse because it's instant, especially if it's coming out of stealth. The recall is very much the same situation. It's far too powerful to give one player that much control over another players playtime without building in a mechanic where they can counter it, and personally I think 5 secs is too long, it should be 3 seconds, but disarm is currently 5 seconds, and I believe in keeping things simple.

I'm not against losing a weapon, it's more about providing counters to gameplay choices, especially in the case where one playstyle is purely dictating the other playstyle.. The counter to a PK is to survive, to run, to flee, the counter to a thief stealing your weapon out of your backpack, while it may be the same, to distance yourself, if the item is gone instantly, there's no way to put that into action, that'd just be poor design.
 

Rydia

Apprentice
#8
@AreYouKidden Disarm requires combat. A disarm thief has to attack you and take your weapon which is risking a murder count (which decay very slow here). A red thief is losing many opportunities unless they just embrace it and go red and only steal weapons in dungeons (in that case why not just PK you).

Thieves trade a ton of skill points for their abilities and are inherently weak classes that can die to an equally skilled pvmer even. You can easily avoid a disarm thief by just having another weapon to swap in during their cooldown if they snatch yours. It's never really been an unbalanced thing in UO and aspect doesn't change that at all.

Despite that I still don't play a disarm thief and there are very very few that do for good reason.

I really believe it should work exactly like a non aspect weapon before this patch, except you get the activation returned to you. As it is now its just another low blow to thieves that are already quite nerfed here. I'm ok with it, but what I am going to do is start PKing your farmers, which I guess people think is a more enjoyable experience which I find strange.
 
#9
No need to return the aspect charge IMO. You lose it if you get PKd, you lose it if you die. If a thief jacks it, well, thems the breaks.

Also, if you get the charge refunded, won't people just have a thief mule in their house to keep a charge on all the time?
 
#11
You can't disarm and insta steal. The 5 second cool down to re equip applies to the item not being stolen too iirc.

For recall steals, there's counter play to that too. It's just not convenient necessarily. But just about as inconvenient as putting yourself in place to steal a weapon on recall.

I legitimately don't care either way if a charge is refunded or not when a weapon is stolen, but @Effex is 100% right. As the shard goes on, a lot more ppl will have aspect weapons that can't be stolen.

If you've ever stolen a weapon mid combat, you know how satisfying that is, and to remove that possibility essentially seems unnecessary
 
#12
This thread <3 Thank you for making it. Agree!

I was also saddened to hear that the new aspect weapons are un-stealable.

I don't think the way aspect items can be discharged is currently good... It's actually caused a few problems, one of them being how easy it is to mistakenly discharge the item. Simply put it in a container or drop it on the ground and poof, no warning and you lose a daily activation. I have no problem avoiding this, but I read the system thoroughly and understood it before I used it... and given the complexity of the system, I don't think its very newbie friendly to discharge items this way.

That said, I would like to make a suggestion that both appeases thieves and victims alike...

Aspect items that are unequipped will now lose charge immediately regardless of being in your backpack or bank, this also includes being disarmed.
Aspect items will now re-gain their charge when equipped to a player that has an active aspect activation.
Because of this, aspect items can now technically be stolen. /suggestion


So in this suggestion, we see not much changing except aspect activation now applies directly to a players body instead of their gear and can only be lost upon death. This also makes it so you can swap out gear anytime.

What do you think? any possible exploits with that?
 

Rydia

Apprentice
#13
Aspect items that are unequipped will now lose charge immediately regardless of being in your backpack or bank, this also includes being disarmed.
Aspect items will now re-gain their charge when equipped to a player that has an active aspect activation.
Because of this, aspect items can now technically be stolen. /suggestion


So in this suggestion, we see not much changing except aspect activation now applies directly to a players body instead of their gear and can only be lost upon death. This also makes it so you can swap out gear anytime.

What do you think? any possible exploits with that?
That sounds good to me.
 
#14
This thread <3 Thank you for making it. Agree!

I was also saddened to hear that the new aspect weapons are un-stealable.

I don't think the way aspect items can be discharged is currently good... It's actually caused a few problems, one of them being how easy it is to mistakenly discharge the item. Simply put it in a container or drop it on the ground and poof, no warning and you lose a daily activation. I have no problem avoiding this, but I read the system thoroughly and understood it before I used it... and given the complexity of the system, I don't think its very newbie friendly to discharge items this way.

That said, I would like to make a suggestion that both appeases thieves and victims alike...

Aspect items that are unequipped will now lose charge immediately regardless of being in your backpack or bank, this also includes being disarmed.
Aspect items will now re-gain their charge when equipped to a player that has an active aspect activation.
Because of this, aspect items can now technically be stolen. /suggestion


So in this suggestion, we see not much changing except aspect activation now applies directly to a players body instead of their gear and can only be lost upon death. This also makes it so you can swap out gear anytime.

What do you think? any possible exploits with that?
That would solve some of the problem with the system, certainly in regards to stealing so I like that aspect :cool: of it. It also allows you to do weapon swapping depending on what you are fighting, especially with slayer weapons so you aren't locked in and lose a charge to switch an activity.

I still think there needs to be a mechanic to deactivate your aspect by choice, returning your activation, some object in town, so people can't deactivate it intentionally while in PvP combat for those who decide to take on the risk of activities they don't want their aspect for..but that's not what's important to this thread..
 
#15
@AreYouKidden Having a proper way to discharge items actually goes with my suggestion very well. I think of a scenario in which I want to quickly switch to a PvP setting from my aspect wearing character, and if my aspect charge is bound to my body that does not bode so well.

Indeed, a way to discharge would almost certainly be needed to go with the idea of "body bound" aspect charges.
 
#19
Aspect is already so griefable with the long cooldown, this would just make it worse. Thieves have plenty of other stuff to steal, you don't need more.