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Murder count cheese (Suicide in safe area to give count)

#1
@Luthius
Recalling or taking a Moongate anywhere should disqualify people from giving murder counts.

It's no fun getting murder count cheesed by someone who takes a bit of damage from you, then goes off to kill themselves somewhere and report you for murder, especially with 3 day long short terms.

A common tactic to exploit this system : Take a bit of damage from someones field spell, summoned EV/BS, AOE spell etc, then recall away to your safe house and suicide to be eligible to give a murder count.

An experience : I punched a guy for 2 damage in a dungeon, he hopped the Moongate, went to a safe spot, killed himself and counted me.

The solution to this problem is not easy, but the cheese counting can be mitigated by a decent amount using my suggestion. Other things can be considered like.. X amount of self damage disqualifies a person for murder counting, or shortening the timer in which someone can count from the last time they took damage.
 
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#2
That's interesting, and certainly has potential to be cheesed a bit. On the other hand, I am sure you wouldn't want it so that say a blue gets hit with poison, makes it through a gate, and then dies on the other side and not able to give a deserved kill count, or get targeted by an explosion spell, get through the gate, and similarly die and can't give a count.

I am definitely not saying you're wrong, just that there would need to be some other sorts of considerations as well to ensure that players can give kill counts that are deserved.
 
#5
@ErikGray Poison ticks still give murder count eligibility after going though a gate/recall because the combat flag (im pretty sure) gets refreshed on damage. So poison would still give the defender the ability to murder count so long as they take at least 1 tick of poison damage after the gate/recall.

Thank you @ViolentBeard that is exactly how multiple other servers have their counting rules set. It is a classic tried/tested/true method of mitigating this cheese.
 
#6
@Elric There is for sure no shortage of donkeys around here, it comes with the population... Im afraid it is a greater problem with our species at the moment.

Even now we can see man acting like a donkey in the wild, as evidenced by @TPain 's comment and the mouth breather that up-voted it.

That being said, its easy to separate the wheat from the chaff - Just get yourself a genuine bonafied donkey filter...

1550953784230.png


EDIT : This post was in response to a post that is now deleted :(
 
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#7
Wow watch out for this tuff guy. Calling people a donkey on the interwebs lol.

You guys are missing the simple facts, since you want to not be reported for a murder, AFTER attacking someone.
Heres an idea that doesnt involve any change to the code. DONT ATTACK PEOPLE YOU CANT AFFORD A COUNT FOR LOL


Every single example will start with you attacking someone.
If you decide to do this, you deserve the punishment that comes with it, regardless of getting any phat loots or not.

1) Why did they recall or gate to leave? because you took aggressive actions on them. If they die for any reason, even if a fucking bird kills them, you deserve it. Why? because YOU ATTACKED THEM.
2) Heals to full? Is this actually something you put time into thinking about? LOL
3) No dmg was dealt. You attacked someone, and they are faster than you. LETS CHANGE THE CODE BECAUSE HIS PING IS > MINE! I dont deserve to be punished because he died, I just attacked him because im so friendly. LOL Also refer to #1

Maybe you can actually try to prove your points instead of trying to insult people that disagree with you with 'donkey' and 'mouth breather'. Its quite a sad attempt.
but but but, words are hard, and I dont want to be punished for attacking players!

The only thing I could see them changing, was the amount of time after action was taken. Like when the pvp flag drops. I can see you actually put thought into them getting away with recall or gate, except for the fact that it just comes back to not wanting a murder count, FOR ATTACKING SOMEONE. It doesnt matter how they die, anyone who attacked them deserves what they get.
 
#8
TPain, that above is how it has worked on many shards previously from this lineage. If you don't actually murder someone - you shouldn't be given a murder count. The punishment for attacking someone or being a general nuisance in that sense is that you go criminal for 120 seconds - not a murder count. In addition this protects people from getting counted by accident by someone who is just abusing it maliciously.
 
#9
So youre saying, if you dont get the killing blow, you shouldnt get a murder count?

If a dude dies, for any reason, within a reasonable time frame of being attacked, every single person, who flagged attacking him, deserves the same.
 
#11
Also, murder counts cost almost nothing. I usually get 20 kills before I die, on average. Some of them dont have loot, some of them are looted before I get a chance. Does this mean I dont deserve a murder count? Cmon.

Okay, So make it your character that was attacked, cannot kill himself. Maybe do it by IP!? what if he uses a monster within the time limit?

Maybe just dont attack people and expect them to live?
I average 20 counts before I die, average...but I also dont get to loot all my kills. Does it mean I dont deserve counts? Hell no. I deserve that shit.
 
#12
Also, just because he escaped YOU, does NOT mean you didnt cause his death somewhere else. You ATTACKED HIM

Which should be limited by a reasonable time frame. Within logic


They have a query before performing criminal actions thing built in game. Its not like you accidentally looted someone elses corpse.
 
#13
Well if a player heals to full and you don't inflict any more damage, or recalls/gates out, or if you just flagged on him without dealing damage - I would say it's very unlikely that you caused his death.
 
#14
So he shouldnt be allowed to give you a count, FOR TRYING TO SURVIVE YOUR ATTACK WITH HEALING!?
Im just not following that logic.

He is now full health, and still running from you, because you want to kill him and take his stuff, but if he dies, and you get nothing, OMG CHANGE EVERYTHING

If you attack someone, and chase them, and they die. They died because you chased them somewhere else. Running from a murder does not mean you shouldnt be able to give them a count if you die. Just because one of the people that attacked you, didnt get the killing blow, or do any dmg for whatever reason, he still took part in an orchestrated attack, that ultimately lead to a death. A count should be given. Even if its his own fault for not curing the poison in time, or even if he wanted to give you a count, because you attacked him? What am I missing?
 
#15
I see much more potential for blue pks and griefers to abuse the system you are suggesting in the changes, than someone getting a count, after attacking someone, and acting like they didnt know it would happen or something.

Simply dont attack people if you dont want a kill count. So simple its crazy.
 
#16
Blues*
Simply dont attack PVM/harvesters/crafters who are blue, and expect to not be known as a murderer, or have to pay a very SMALL FINE. I really hope we arent actually crying about the price of a kill count, and that the concerns are over murderers becoming red. To each their own.
 
#18
You're going crazy over what has been the standard rules for ages. It's simple, if you kill someone you get a murder count. If you don't and they kill themselves, you don't get a murder count.
 
#19
If you contribute to someone's death, you should get the murder count, regardless if you had the killing blow. In a way you are griefing the blue, in some cases it's their only way to grief back..

And while I realize Pk'n is not griefing in the sense that it's allowed, you are forcing your playstyle on them, so expect a little push back every now and then..

I'd be curious to know how many of these counts actually happen..
 
#20
As a lifelong blue player, I have to support @Lord Roser @ViolentBeard.

Simply put, risk of being counted MUST be met by potential reward of looting. Risk -vs- Reward is what UO has done best since 1998.

Safely in the below context implies you are no longer in immediate danger.

A) Safely Recalled or Gated
— Safely exiting gives no chance/reward of loot to the attacker. NO COUNT.
— Unsafely exiting with bleed, poison, explode, etc still active when you die. COUNTABLE.

B) Safely Healed to Full
— X secs since damaged by attacker. NO COUNT.
— Y distance away from attacker. NO COUNT.

C) No Damage Dealt by Attacker
— Appropriate risk/penalty is a 120sec criminal timer.
— You are not yet in immediate danger. NO COUNT.