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Murder count cheese (Suicide in safe area to give count)

#22
I don't think i've seen a single blade spirit, energy vortex or field spell in 3 months, except para fields from PKs. If you don't want a count, then don't attack other players, extremely simple. If you do, you might get their stuff, but there's consequences as well. Seems balanced to me.
 
#23
@Zapatos80 Exploiting the system by suicide in a safe area seems balanced to you?

I am willing to bet the system currently in place is closer to vanilla run UO settings than it is to a well thought out and intentional mechanic.

I am not trying to take away your ability to count people bud, this is a very subtle change that stops exploitative grief.

I cant speak for everyone, but the reason I don't use AOE based attacks or field spells right now is because I will go red so fast from count greifers (same people who do all sorts of other greify shitty things to people). I don't want to go red on my level 10 command aspect tamer from using field spells in innocent ways on mobs.

Lets make a positive and obviously good change here.

One more thing to add on field spells - The last server I played made it so you could not count people if you ran into their fire/para/poison field unless it was target cast directly onto the person. It worked well actually gave people a reason to use field spells in PvM more often.
 
#24
The last server I played made it so you could not count people if you ran into their fire/para/poison field unless it was target cast directly onto the person. It worked well actually gave people a reason to use field spells in PvM more often.
This would be a great change imo.

As for the suicide counting, I've had it used against me by griefers, but I like that it's an option that I could use myself someday.
 
#25
@Zapatos80 Exploiting the system by suicide in a safe area seems balanced to you?

I am willing to bet the system currently in place is closer to vanilla run UO settings than it is to a well thought out and intentional mechanic.

I am not trying to take away your ability to count people bud, this is a very subtle change that stops exploitative grief.
Again dont attack people or foolishly use AoE spells you will never get a count.

I use AoE all the time it is very useful, I dont however use it in crowded areas were lots of other players are.

They are not exploiting the system only your foolishness.

Do you guys want the devs to come burp you and change your diapers after they implement the changes you want. Go play a game were you can enable god mode I think you will have a more enjoyable time.

This is hands down one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever seen in my life.
 
#27
There should be a penalty for attacking players, even if they get away. You're still making them risk their stuff if they die and making them lose time even if they do get away. That's the price they pay, the price you pay is a count. Seems fair to me. Don't attack other players if you don't want a count. Simple.

Field spells is a whole other topic : they could for exampple not work on blues if cast by a blue or whatever other option would make them more viable in PVM. Completely different subject though.
 
#29
@Lokipower the subject is murder count cheesing (or unintentionally attacking a player and receiving a murder count). Field spells happen to be the #1 easiest way to achieve this cheese, so actually its right on point with this discussion.

Best case scenario we get a toggle command to switch our field/aoe attacks to PvP or Non PvP - same goes with pet/follower AoE as well. Would be nice to see that implemented, but it is quite a large task I would think.

There absolutely is a penalty for attacking players - you go Grey (Criminal) for 120 seconds. I have actually put fourth a case (in another thread) to increase this grey timer up to 15 mins.

I watched a noob play UO last night - its was his first time playing UO. Thank god for the newbie dungeon otherwise this guy would have been grey, then dead, then red within his first 2 hours of gameplay due to him simply trying to double click mobs and inadvertently clicking players nearby. We have the criminal flag warning for new players, and that helped him quite a bit - most of us turn it off once we learn the game more, however this does not stop flagging from AoE/Field attacks.
 
#30
You basically want the freedom to push people out of dungeons as a blue with no consequences. If they stay they will probably die, if they leave they have no recourse and are now not farming/lost the spot. Lose, Lose situation, for the person who is just minding their own business and gets attacked. Keep as is. If you attack another player, there is a chance you get a murder count. This seems like a normal thing to me. If you, as a blue, want to avoid getting murder counts, don't attack blues.
 
#31
There should be a penalty for attacking players, even if they get away.
You basically want the freedom to push people out of dungeons as a blue with no consequences.
There is a penalty.
There is a consequence.
Counter arguments (purposely or by oversight) suggesting that there would be no penalty or consequence of attacking are invalid.

At a minimum, the penalty for attacking innocents is a 120second criminal timer.

Here, I'll bold and underline it for those of you who need be reminded.

At a minimum, the penalty for attacking innocents is a 120second criminal timer.
 
#32
You basically want the freedom to push people out of dungeons as a blue with no consequences.....
Can you elaborate on this? I am a bit confused as to what you mean.

I actually don't push people out of dungeons at all.. If anything I will sometimes do a damage competition for looting rights, but I'm not the guy aggressing on blues here... I'm the guy getting cheesed from dungeon grievers who want to turn my tamer red! And no, I'm not trying to attack people... It just happens sometimes especially if you get ballsy enough to use AoE - which by the way CAN hit hidden characters that ARE blue... so good luck with that one.

Fact of the matter is fellas, almost any server that's been running for more than a year has had to deal with this issue one way or another. Now I'm not gonna go out there to prove my point by turning noobs red, but I am however very aware of the possibilities of this and how angry it makes innocent players.

Lastly, if this change does go through, I can assure you that the only people that will even notice are those who are exploiting the system by killing themselves in a safe area far removed from where any criminal flagging happened. The average player who does not engage in such grief activities will not even notice a change occurred.
 

KimG

Apprentice
#33
If anything I will sometimes do a damage competition for looting rights,
OMG but what about the poor guy you just wanted to farm in piece finds a mob then some dick tamer comes and out damages him and gets loot rights.

Maybe you should make it so first person to tag the mob get loot rights while we are going for silly nonsensical changes.

What a joke.
 
#37
Personally I don't have an issue with the murder count cheese, if you attack someone for any reason, accidental or not, you should be at risk of receiving a count, otherwise people will exploit the ways they can get around it. Regardless if you think the person killing themselves is cheese.. However when the HoB timer is done, they shouldn't be able to count you in that case.

However I did see one suggestion about field spells, where if you were blue, they wouldn't damage another blue, and that's an instance where for the betterment of the creativity of mage game play, I'd agree with. Right now you don't know if someone is hidden or not, and it can flag you - so you don't even know if you are accidentally doing it. That truly needs to be fixed.
 
#39
Give a reasonable example.
I picture many blues attacking just to scare someone off - if they don't do the damage or a person leaves, their risk of a count is lowered? It'll become a tactic to push weaker players away from a spot you want to farm. Hell I do that already sometimes, and just manage my counts since there is no real penalty to being blue and taking counts.
 
#40
Anything other than El Horno's grasping at straws scenario?

Seems to me these blues being attacked can easily overcome this nuisance by recognizing that they aren't actually being attacked. But I bet if you emote *ROAR* that will get em right? You might as well just ask them nicely to leave at that point.. lol

'Pushing blues out of dungeons by flagging grey on them but not actually attacking them'.... Brilliant. If you do that solo your chances of catching a dungeon gank are pretty high, and if you have a partner or two then you could simply win looting rights over whatever frightened bambi noob you plan on doing "the boogie man" to.

Silliness to the maximum I say!