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Poison aspect changes, NOX PVM changes

Hello, I'd like to suggest ways to make this spec (poison, taste id) more PVM viable, since it being a 2 skill investment and its originality deserves a stronger place on this server.

As it stands, in order to be a successful (?) nox mage, you need both poisoning and taste identification, which is fine as long as the end result has advantages over other builds, or at least within the same realm of power as other 2 skill investments we see in the game.

As a gm poisoner, gm taste ID character who is currently level 6 in the nox aspect, I can expect to cast lethal 20% of the time on my mage casts. With all damage boosts accounted for, I deal 55 damage a tick, (lethal being a tick every 5 seconds). This is the best case scenario, and in fairness is decently 'OK'. The other 80% of the time, you'll cast poison and deal 32 damage per 7 seconds with greater poison, 42 damage every 6 seconds with deadly (40% of the time), and a 23 damage regular poison tick if no upgrades happen. This is presuming the target does not resist your poison tick(resisting all damage from tick), which can happen. Overall, with an investment I have of 2 skills and a full poison aspect suit at level 6, one would expect more. *these damage rates are with a level 6 poison aspect suit on*

Poison skill does not increase poison damage, it only increases chance to upgrade your poison to a higher level. Taste ID doubles your poison damage, and lowers your targets chance to resist poison ticks (yes, this is a thing). Taste ID also gives a higher food buff, and an aoe ground target buff that gives resistances to all players in the area against poison/bleed/disease.

Some changes I'd like to see to make this a more viable PVM build would be to:

First allow the AOE buff of taste ID to affect player followers, ie tamed creatures and summons (25% chance to resist bleed/poison/disease damage at GM taste id). Offering a little defensive boost would make the skill feel stronger on its own, rather than a must have to tie in with poisoning, and makes it on par with other AOE buffs, affecting followers.

Increase in poison damage, either in way of adding a bonus to poisoning skill, or letting poison damage be modified by bonuses such as tracking/forensic, etc.

Changes to the poison aspect (presuming max level tier of 12)
It sits that the aspect armor gives the following bonuses:
Increase poison damage: 23% at max tier
Chance of poison spread: 23% at max tier
Effective taste ID skill increase: 30 at max tier

First off, I think poison spread misses the point. Poison spread only works on targets with 4 tiles, and only spreads based on the cast of the spell, not on tick damage. So if you cast and it doesn't spread, you'll be recasting anyways on other targets, which works against what poison spread is supposed to do anyway (lead to less poison casts). I think first of all theres very few niches where you'd care for a poison spread, say tmaps spawn or maybe event spawn, but 23% chance is too low to reliably get a spread, and by the time you get a spread everything will have been poisoned already, so it works counter-intuitively.

I would suggest changing this for something else entirely, maybe along the lines of poison ticks have a chance to upgrade the poison, or perhaps poison damage has a chance to double the tick damage, or maybe poison tick damage has a chance to steal mana/health from the target. I think one of those changes would add a much better feel to the set than an at best niche/rng mechanic.

Secondly, the poison damage increase is fairly negligible. 23% for that investment is pretty low. I go from 50 damage lethal ticks to 55 damage lethal ticks at level 6 tier, which is a whopping 1 dps gain, not affected by resisted poisons (thus making it less than 1 dps). If either the base damage of poison were increased then perhaps 23% is sufficient, but as it sits it loses to every other aspect when it comes to dps increase.

Lastly, I believe that poison should be added to the effective skill gain, leading to more frequent upgraded poison casts. Such as the eldritch aspect affecting SS and scribe, or void affecting parry and resist, it should stand to reason that the set should buff poison skill and taste ID, adding a much stronger tie to the set.

To end this, I've seen a lot of people asking for PVM nox mage viability, and as fun as the build sounds to some of us, its hard looking at other builds just completely outperforming in many ways and knowing we are purposefully making ourselves less efficient by taking these 2 skills.

I hope to at least get a discussion or post regarding PVM poisoning by a staff, and if PVM poisoning is where they like it to be at.
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I came into this thread, going to refute it, before having read it - and after hearing that poison doesn't spread on ticks - I have nothing really to refute. That single change, would make a huge different in how the suit performs, because lethal ticks themselves provide a very decent DPS, and you can have that ticking on as many mobs as you can find, raising your DPS substantially, and thus your killing time.

I like what I'm reading above - well thought out, I picture you dragging poison mobs through a dungeon, and then they spread the disease/poison to other mobs within 4 tiles, the elastic band nature of mobs stops it from being too over powered, but if you can keep poison ticking on 3-4 mobs, it's a very high performing template, and if you can do that without burning through lethal poison potions every mob you see, at 75 avg gp per pot, then you've got a pretty valid farming apparatus.. But as it stands now the cost per cast is far too high to make it an efficient template..
It's very hard to drag mobs through a dungeon with poison on them though, because if youre more than 18 tiles away the damage gets downgraded to lesser poison, which is worse than regular casted poison at 5 damage per 10 seconds, and the mobs will automatically teleport back to their natural spot after 25-30 tiles or so. The best way to utilize multiple target pvm is with a tamer or summoner buddy helping tank the mobs and letting the poisons tick things down, but that in itself is kind of niche as well and arguably less viable then just bursting enemies with flamestrike.

Now, you can poison and kite an enemy, but by doing so you lose the ability to meditate so you can pump more FS into the target. What I do is poison, fs dump and med while my daemons tank, and i find bigger pulls with multiple targets poisoned is too much damage for my daemons so theres more down time resummoning them, making it slower than just single target nox setup. This works ok, but every other summoner variant outperforms this setup, by and large either by damage output or defensive utility, especially if im unable to get a lethal upgrade.
I'm all for buffs to taste I'd or poisoning for pvm. I just don't like the idea of the buffs being based around aspect gear. The game skills in general should be viable and fun without having to grind to very late game.
I'm all for buffs to taste I'd or poisoning for pvm. I just don't like the idea of the buffs being based around aspect gear. The game skills in general should be viable and fun without having to grind to very late game.
Agreed. We need to see changes that aren't based on the assumption that everyone will be using aspect gear.
poison mage, pure bard (3x, less dependancy on forensics/tracking) ,
archery (higher arrow recovery on corpses) , stealth (pvm 10 second timer to something shorter for backstab like backstab on hide) would benefit from some non-apect gear tweaking.

the new game of thrones mastery chains seem like a cool opportunity to buff these skills. also possibly having a single gm skill you pick as a mastery (like osi ) that gives you a cool mastery skill perk.

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Poison is incredibly weak, and the aspect suit is too - that poison tick on spread would be a great change.. .it's only good on mobs in a group..