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Proposed Solution for Rampant PKing

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as long there is no way to enforce it by code its a useless rule

ya! my solutions always go by

a. does it add value
b. is it fun
c. does it solve the issue
d. is it creative, immersive and support role playing?

if not its not alot of fun. some easier idead are
a. retain pvm skill perks if ganked by pk (example retain higher parry bonus and shield resist)

b. allow us to respawn as revenants and seek revenge or an npc monster revenant instead (angry spirit)

c. have more "good creatures" that hunt down evil beings (or more monsters that aggro reds)

d. more skill perks to help defense (dnd inspired bard bonuses that can be used in pk to mass teleport, regen health, cause fizzle , cause misses / decrease accuracy)

aka from dnd:
cutting words (cause spells to fail or skills or accuracy to miss)

dimension door (teleport u and one friend 500 feet)

song of rest (regenerate out of combat health)

then x - amount of uses per time limit these per hour (similar to how bards play in dnd 5e)

so at 2x bard (music, peace) you get four of these, 3x 8 and 4x 16 per hour or something.

probably hard to code i just would love to see more immersive stuff (even a pacifist group healer)
PvE players have assumed all the risk, all the losses, and are either losing money or barely breaking even. We need to balance the scales without buffing the viability of PvM templates in PvP or nerfing PKers.
I agree with your first sentence -- right now reds practically have Trammel. Disagree with your second sentence though. Obviously pvm templates should never be as effective for pvp as pvp templates, but that doesn't mean they need to be useless. Why shouldn't a bard be able to peace a player? Why shouldn't a strong pet be able to take a bite out of them? From an immersion perspective it just seems dumb. And from a gameplay perspective, having zero chance of fighting back just gets really boring. Most proposed solutions seem to focus only on the gold made or paid by pks but don't introduce any real risk for reds.

Oroechimaru, the ideas you've been coming up with are some of the more creative and immersive I've seen. I especially like the idea of good-aligned creatures that hunt down evil beings. One of the coolest things about Outlands is all the custom monsters with special attacks, monsters that hunger for revenge or red blood would fit right in.
It's all well and good people replying "LEARN TO PLAY NEWBS CARRY POUCHES" but the fact is many of the people you're aiming this at aren't going to continue playing if every time they go into a dungeon they get attacked by groups of reds.

You can all jump on your ideological high-horses about "This is UO, deal with it" - but you'll be doing it on a server with a much lower population than if we'd sought to address these issues. A couple of personal anecdotes that no one cares about, but they're relevant:

  1. I was the admin of an AoS server with very similar red penalties to Outlands (gold cost on death instead of res, but essentially the same), and reds absolutely dominated the server within 3 months and drove everyone else off, population dropped away to nothing except for 2 vying red guilds.
  2. I have taken my red out on Outlands in a pair 3 times, got 30ish kills, around 40k gold/items, and the only time we have died (or even taken any damage from players) was to a larger group of reds. Every single PvMer we came across died in the same way - 3 spells and a weapon hit from each of us.
Before the above experiences I was a proponent for limited red penalties. I like playing a red, it gives maximum PvP opportunities, I am a huge fan of the AoS era where huge guilds of reds competed for champ spawns and harrowers. We have to be realistic, however - retaining an active player-base is in all of our best interests, hence ideas like the OP should be applauded.

I'm hopeful that the introduction of factions and reds no longer being able to use the dungeon gates should make a big difference in the number/frequency of red raids into dungeons.
I like how the shard works I seen very good PK and some bad one. It fair some pks wont kill people pack animal if they fer what they want other just do it because they are assholes. It fair normal if I see a red with my paper even if it a fresh red coming back from dieing I still kill them or blue if they are dinks
I'm hopeful that the introduction of factions and reds no longer being able to use the dungeon gates should make a big difference in the number/frequency of red raids into dungeons.
the impact of the factionstruggels on the numbers of pks in dungeons will be very tiny.

and not be able to use the gates will only effect solo or duo pks it wont make any diffrence for big groups.
Totally disagree re effect of gates. Any group that has to work their way back out has a much harder time of getting their whole team out with loot. Other groups of PvPers will have chance to catch them. It makes Anti-PK guilds viable.
Yes it will make very hard for solo and pk duos But it wont stop pk zergs. you would see even bigger groups of reds.
they will just clean the dungen in reverse direction lol.

i found a bug in uo:
reporting someone for murder does not report them for murder.
report the murder to players willing to fend off evil.
make it scale according to the severity of the crime.
all fixed.

all these ideas trying to push a certain playstyle into a corner dont work.
I think when you remove dungeon gate travel for reds, and increase their penalties (which in turn increases the reward if someone kills a red), it will add that incentive, and ability to hunt reds. You get PK'd down on level 3 of a dungeon, post up in an anti-PK channel, and an anti-PK group has a chance to respond, and fight the reds, they are more willing to do it, because they stand to gain something for doing it as well.

Perhaps with higher penalties, the average red won't be looking for so many easy kills, knowing that it'll just increase their penalty, and they aren't making enough off of the kill to support it. Perhaps they'll stop hunting new player areas like overland GY's, or level 1's of dungeons..
another item ... possibly make control points that generate revenue to incentavize pvp templates to guard areas (even if its control points on roads etc)
Anti-pk groups don't even exist here, and often haven't lasted long on other servers... we need solutions that don't depend on that.

the fact is many of the people you're aiming this at aren't going to continue playing if every time they go into a dungeon they get attacked by groups of reds.
It isn't just dungeons, they make their rounds through all the overworld spots too. Small map means they can hit all the prime spots in under 30 minutes.

I love Outlands, and I keep accounts logged in to help with the numbers but I haven't actually played the game in days because there's so little I can realistically do that it's getting kind of boring. I keep thinking "I should use those alacrity scrolls" but then I think about how much of a pain in the ass it's going to be and I wind up doing something else. Maybe this is how people quit, not as some act of protest but just by slowly losing interest.
To me it's less to do with dying and losing gold, and more to do with not being able to play the game. When a few reds are blowing through the dungeons you basically can't do anything until they decide to stop doing that.

If the make it so the reds can't get out of the dungeon without fighting out, that will make a huge difference. They will get locked down in area for a longer period of time.
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hard part is there are some server featured that rock but also stack the ods further in reds favors:

a. condensed map
b. narrow dungeons
c. narrow map
d. low reward for most mobs
e. difficult to obtain basic gear to get back on your feet without a crafter (which I'd rather go explore)
f. low risk for reds to die
g. high reward for low risk for reds
h. modern scripts
i. modern communication like discord
j. less anti pk skill perks (still a ton of pro pvp perks like paralyze)

most of this can be resolved over time by our devs and i believe it will only get better
a. more areas to explore
b. wider map areas
c. new wider dungeons could be created. linear paths favor zergs
d. more anti pk skill buffs
e. more diverse spawns
f. more loot
g. easier accessible loot without farming newb dungeon
i. retain pvm bonuses if blue and attacked by red
j. more incentives to be anti pk (generate control point loot or guard tower/watch loot)

k. good alignment powerful monsters that attack reds (spirits, revenants, wisps etc summoned after people die making it harder for reds to escape or ignore mobs)
Discussions on solutions to mitigate murdering never go anywhere on any shard I have ever played on. In fact, I fact, every UO PK discussion thread I have ever seen can be summed up in two lines:
  • "Man, getting PKd every time I leave town sucks shit. I hate losing hours of effort every time I decide to play."
  • "WTF are you talking about? This is UO. Welcome to UO pleb. Bank more often and don't even think about being efficient or something retarded like that. Git gud or git gone. The only problem here is you being a pussy, pussy."
Don't waste your time trying to explain your point of view. The people killing you 400 times over to take 500 gold don't give a rat's ass and are unbelievably short-sighted. If you aren't happy with the current state of the game, just do something else and monitor for changes. I've stopped 'adventuring' after being pkd for the 30th time and having to deal with dungeon mob dragging for hours on end. I just semi-afk mine resources (which I get pkd at least four times a day doing) while I play PS4 or Switch. I can't handle the sociopaths and my time is too valuable to entertain assholes at the expense of my enjoyment.

The most enjoyable thing to happen in game for me so far was to get that alacrity scroll so I can watch my harvesting and crafting skills go up faster. Oh, and having someone donate a pack animal to me once I left noobville - which was murdered 2 minutes later. If people can't see a problem then you aren't going to enlighten them. You are just going to let them forum pk you too.

The fact of the matter is a for-profit company (OSI) saw such a problem from unmitigated murdering that they threw in the towel and created Trammel because subscriptions were dropping like flies. Were there other factors? Definitely, but clearly (based on their data analytics) murdering was enough of an issue to put in a colossal amount of effort to implement a very drastic solution. I don't wan't Trammel, but I'd like to enjoy some of this unique content without getting killed every 5 minutes.
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kind of bummer to here that but so far my time is mostly macroing while playing fo76 lol

it wouldn't he so bad if the reward ratio of risk/reward was higher for lower tier mobs. that way if u died u could earm back basic gear quickly to get on your feet.

after playing for a day to get an instrument and set of armor then being pked... i lost motivation to farm newb dungeon again. oh well
I actually don't think the map has anything to do with it. There's just as many dungeons (albiet some are a bit smaller) and there's far more overland hunting spots. Where was actually good for PvM overland on OSI? Daemon Temple and Yew Liches? I can't think of anywhere else. Reds could also tour the dungeons easier, and get out whenever they wanted. Trapping them in with one way in and out is going to make a huge difference.

Belgarion's post is why PvPers/PK's need to grow the fuck up and not spam "deal with it lollol get pouches m8" because I'm going to be spamming "I fucking told you so" when the population drops by half. (it won't drop by half because Luthius and Owyn will make some changes - but it would if they left it as is)

@W there is no answer to "PK zergs" - the current groups of 3 people touring dungeons aren't zergs, and if the changes force them to run in greater numbers to tour the dungeons, that means they'll be touring the dungeons less. I don't think you're putting a great deal of thought into your comments...
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