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Proposed Solution for Rampant PKing

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I have never seen a server die because people were getting PKed too much. The two most popular servers of the past decade have had zero drawbacks to PKing whatsoever. Hybrid was popping for years with zero statloss and zero bounty system of any kind, and I assure you it didnt die because people were tired of getting PKed. Don't be ridiculous, you're upset because you die and lose some items in a video game and you want it changed so you don't have to suffer that fate again. We understand. There are many world of warcraft servers that would be great for you.
Yea and thats the problem. We don't want them to play world of warcraft. We want them to play uo outlands.
 
Yea and thats the problem. We don't want them to play world of warcraft. We want them to play uo outlands.
Look, i want a popping server just as much as anyone else, but UO is about risk versus reward. Its a defining characteristic of how the game was originally designed. If people can't handle that, then its not the game for them, plain and simple.
 
My most likely unpopular opinion to help alleviate things;

Re-purpose all dungeon gates as yellow gates. Right now I feel like the dungeons are the wrong way around. All the high value veteran players are (or should be) on the bottom levels of dungeons farming for hours on end and reds are having to roll through the bottom 2 levels leaving a wake of dead noobs behind just to get to these players.

Keep these gates to a minimum, but spaced on various corners of the dungeon. This should help with dungeon cams as you're going to struggle having a cam for each gate + the natural entrance.


Ultimately, no amount of fees or penalties is ever going to "fix" anything. So long as PKs exist people will complain about them, and so long as people have the ability to PK, they will find a way to do so. All you can do is try to direct these players towards areas where you want them.
 
Look, i want a popping server just as much as anyone else, but UO is about risk versus reward. Its a defining characteristic of how the game was originally designed. If people can't handle that, then its not the game for them, plain and simple.
I don't want to offend you but your post is wrong in multiple ways:

firstly your argument turns against yourself. The risk/reward balance is out of proportion for reds atm. Groups role in with 5+ reds and kill everyone, get all the gold and go out through last level gates. Risk 0, Reward maybe 40k for 10 minutes of fun. Who should kill a group of 5+ pvpers. The pvmers in the dungeons against skilled pvpers who sync drop and have all 7 skills for pvp puposes?

Secondly the world is not that simple. In a perfect world the few people who complain would just leave and we live our wonderfull outlands life. But staff has to deal with the reality. And the reality is that UO has a very limited player base. On top of that this limited player base consists of a much higher percentage of pvm players than pvp players. If all those who "can't take it" (like you say) would quitt, the shard would be dead within 2 month because pks will lose interest in very low populated shard as well.

And as a little reminder: the game you loved so much back in the days had a 20% perma skill loss penalty for reds during t2a in a system where skill gain was 5x harder than on outlands.
 
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I don't want to offend you but your post is wrong in multiple ways:

firstly your argument turns against yourself. The risk/reward balance is out of proportion for reds atm. Groups role in with 5+ reds and kill everyone, get all the gold and go out through last level gates. Risk 0, Reward maybe 40k for 10 minutes of fun. Who should kill a group of 5+ pvpers. The pvmers in the dungeons against skilled pvpers who sync drop and have all 7 skills for pvp puposes?

Secondly the world is not that simple. In a perfect world the few people who complain would just leave and we live our wonderfull outlands life. But staff has to deal with the reality. And the reality is that UO has a very limited player base. On top of that this limited player base consists of a much higher percentage of pvm players than pvp players. If all those who "can't take it" (like you say) would quitt, the shard would be dead within 2 month because pks will lose interest in very low populated shard as well.

And as a little reminder: the game you loved so much back in the days had a 20% perma skill loss penalty for reds during t2a in a system where skill gain was 5x harder than on outlands.
I've seen so many people say pks "risk zero" how do you figure that exactly? Are they not risking also dying themselves? Losing all the loot on their body same as any pvmer and in addition also risking having to pay a bounty and also not be able to flag aggressor for the next hour? That's not risking nothing, its risking something. Is it as bad as perma stat loss? No, its not, and I never said original UO or t2a was perfect, but not every era has had perma statloss PK systems either. Things are different now, people have 3 accounts and amazing macros and scripts and multiclient 3 characters regularly, if anything something like perma statloss would probably be even worse on blues because red guilds would run even deeper and use tactics to take no risks at all. On great lakes we had guilds that ran 20 deep with 6 or 7 tamers with 10+ dragons each (when there was no follower limit) 6 or 7 dexers and a few mages who spammed nothing but paralyze. Thats probably the kind of shit we would see. Good pvm temps do have some significant advantages over pvp temps in terms of managing spawn. Running through spawn to chase is dangerous on a pk mage. On a tamer or summoner you can spam guard and have a significantly easier time moving through spawn. Obviously bards have some good options to keep spawn off of them as well. If people are choosing to come to dungeons with dumpster dexer tamer builds and dexer peace builds with zero resist and no magery or any other skills to defend themselves that's their own fault. There is gates on literally every level back to town, you are on foot so you have a massive amount of time to respond to incoming reds. People are allowed to multiclient a blue at the entrance to scout reds. You can roll in groups. You could attempt to fight back, instead of 5 or 6 tamers scattering and running at the sight of 2 reds. Earlier I ran around on my PK while he was on the aggressor debuff after dying to a group of factioners (zero penalties though) and I cleared multiple dungeons by running around screaming "PKS!!!" while I wasnt even able to attack anyone. Thats on the players, not the devs to fix.

Bottom line and what im saying is, some of these changes ive seen suggested to bless items or gold and whatever else are ridiculously trammy. You might not like it, but sometimes you just need to tell people to learn to play.
 
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The dedicated anti-pk group that is going to keep the red population in check is a complete myth.

If people don't want penalties to increase, then pvm characters need to be less vulnerable so they have some chance to fight back. Changing resist scaling at low skill levels is the obvious choice since it is so commonly dropped in pvm builds. Specifically, characters with 100 resist should take the same spell damage as they do currently, but players with 0 resist should take spell damage comparable to a player with 50 resist on the live server. Gm resist would still be a necessity for dedicated PvP characters, but pvm characters with 0 resist wouldnt be as easy to kill.

Edit: two further changes to make pvm characters less vulnerable.
(1) players should be able to attack reds and still be able to recall or take the gates out. Pvmers should be able to start to defend themselves before reds have already caught them and started the killing sync.
(2) remove hamstring while on foot. A two second slow or stun isnt a big deal on a horse because its easier to avoid and easier to get offscreen and lose people after the slow, but it is a death sentence on foot, especially for a pvm character facing multiple PvP characters.

Hell, remove hamstring in general. Its a bad mechanic that favors the bigger group. Catching people in UO is a skill, and if you cant catch someone that doesnt want to fight you for long enough to kill them, then you didnt deserve the kill.
There absolutely will be groups of blues looking to go kill reds. You need to be more patient while everyone gets set up.
 
Look, i want a popping server just as much as anyone else, but UO is about risk versus reward. Its a defining characteristic of how the game was originally designed. If people can't handle that, then its not the game for them, plain and simple.
Exactly. It is about risk versus reward. Right now those two things are wildly imbalanced.

When one of the core tenants of a game is imbalanced... shouldn't we try to improve that?
 
The dedicated anti-pk group that is going to keep the red population in check is a complete myth.

If people don't want penalties to increase, then pvm characters need to be less vulnerable so they have some chance to fight back.
I agree entirely, I propose PvM characters actually prioritize survival skills (melee/wrestle, resist, hiding, parrying, tracking etc) over glass cannon damage skills (camping, forensics, tracking etc)... it would solve much of the complaints! Also they should carry pots & pouchs, to help with survival! You'll notice that tracking doubles up on that list as survival and damage, that's intentional, you can actively track reds, so you can escape before they are ever on your screen while enjoying some extra damage buffs.

heres a curious statement..
what about the idea of bounty systems is so flawed that they will never work?
They are flawed in the sense that you can use an alt, or a friend to collect the bounty.
 
Exactly. It is about risk versus reward. Right now those two things are wildly imbalanced.

When one of the core tenants of a game is imbalanced... shouldn't we try to improve that?
I saw a convoluted solution in one of these many PK threads, talking about stolen loot, and if you killed a PK before the stolen loot was able to be laundered, that some of that loot would go back to the original victim. I actually think it'd go a long way if the original victim came to find out that within 24 hours of being PK'd, and having 10k stolen from them, that the PK was killed, and they received 25% of it back.. There's something to be said about getting the satisfaction that someone got that PK. That coupled with reds having to fight their way back out of dungeons, would really help for people putting calls out to get reds killed when they are PK'd, so the community could police itself...

More of course if you can get him yourself, and collect the 25% of the penalty he pays!
 
They are flawed in the sense that you can use an alt, or a friend to collect the bounty.
That's not a crippling flaw though. And especially not one that makes it so "they will never work".

As long as the reward bounty is not 100% of the penalty bounty, then it's still penalizing the pk.

If the pk wants to cut his own leg off; pay 50% or 75% of the bounty and lose all prestige of having one of the highest murder counts/bounties... then that's certainly not a "crippling flaw that makes it so bounties will never work".
That's not even including all the tweaks that could be made to make it work better.

If that's the whole reason for his statement, then it's a ridiculous thing to say.
 
This server has multiple gates in the dungeons, how are you morons dying?

It's catered to blue's yet yall still find something to complain about.
They don't understand common sense, it's emotions taking over logic.

The devs could put trammel in and they still wouldn't be happy until luring mobs was a bannable offence/no more than 1 mob can aggro an individual player unless he/she/whatever it's called consents.
 

clx

Apprentice
At the end of the day, both sides need to meet in the middle, the more you can do it by your actions, the less Owyn and Luthius have to direct with adjustments.

Solo players need to realise that the dungeons are risk v reward - if you don't want to die to reds, it isn't the place to be. There are plentiful good overland spawns where you have a horse and recall to escape with. Join a guild to go to the dungeons if you don't want to get killed.

Red players/PvPers need to realise that if you kill, dry loot and don't offer a res to casual, solo players - they will just go play something else where they don't feel like they're being bullied - and Outlands population will drop by half.
 
At the end of the day, both sides need to meet in the middle, the more you can do it by your actions, the less Owyn and Luthius have to direct with adjustments.

Solo players need to realise that the dungeons are risk v reward - if you don't want to die to reds, it isn't the place to be. There are plentiful good overland spawns where you have a horse and recall to escape with. Join a guild to go to the dungeons if you don't want to get killed.

Red players/PvPers need to realise that if you kill, dry loot and don't offer a res to casual, solo players - they will just go play something else where they don't feel like they're being bullied - and Outlands population will drop by half.
but dry looting is my fav
 
I'm a horse killing man myself (i'm an activist against animal cruelty), but i understand your opinion.
Oh I do both. But the reason for horse killing is to keep the new tamers on the shard in business, selling horses. I get a lot of heat for the dry looting/horse killing, I just remind myself that I am doing the Lords work.
 
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