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Skill gain improvements?

#1
I think the skill gain is pretty tedious when it comes to the casual player. I roughly get an hour or 2 a day (if im lucky) to play. Usually consists of me going to the dungeon and killing some monsters for skills/money and then use the last 15 mins to setup macro to gain skill over night. I noticed doing magery last night, i went through 1k regs and only gained from 70-72 (while in a house macroing). Is it faster to gain at a bank instead of a house? I like the way Magic Resist gains in the new dungeon. Can we make it a little faster for the casual players please?
 

Panik8

Journeyman
#3
Is it faster to gain at a bank instead of a house?
It is faster to gain while playing. Whenever you kill a creature, you get 5x bonus skill gain (to most skills, excluding gathering and crafting skills) for 10 minutes, so by trying to macro a skill such as Magery at a bank or in a house, you're gaining 5x slower than you would by actively playing, which also means you spend 5x more on regs doing so.

I like the way Magic Resist gains in the new dungeon.
The newb dungeon has a 10x bonus to skill gain, up to 70 skill. Likewise, once you reach 70, if you just macro your character casting Corp Por and Kal Vas Flam at himself without killing anything, you'll spend 5x more time and resources than you would if you were actively playing.

The Skill Gain Guide explains how to make the best of the skill gain bonuses and which skill benefit from it. Check it out...
 
#4
It is faster to gain while playing. Whenever you kill a creature, you get 5x bonus skill gain (to most skills, excluding gathering and crafting skills) for 10 minutes, so by trying to macro a skill such as Magery at a bank or in a house, you're gaining 5x slower than you would by actively playing, which also means you spend 5x more on regs doing so.



The newb dungeon has a 10x bonus to skill gain, up to 70 skill. Likewise, once you reach 70, if you just macro your character casting Corp Por and Kal Vas Flam at himself without killing anything, you'll spend 5x more time and resources than you would if you were actively playing.

The Skill Gain Guide explains how to make the best of the skill gain bonuses and which skill benefit from it. Check it out...
that makes so much sense now..wish i saw this earlier...
 
#8
Skill gain could use some improvement. In theory and design active gain is really great, but what wasn't accounted for is people using really advanced scripts. In practice the gap between those with advanced scripts(think scripts capable of keeping active bonus up 100% of the time) are creating a huge gap between players both casual and active. What would help offset this is either weighted gains or a bonus to skill gain if you account has not been active for x hours.

EX: I'm running an advanced script capable of killing a bird every 10 minutes to have 5x skill gain 100% of the time. Maybe a solution is limiting the time you get 5x during a 24 hour period(maybe limited by the creature's gold value. After you have 5x active for 60 minutes it requires more "xp" to activate the bonus again. So killing a bird doesn't pop the 5x after a few times, but killing a troll might, and then eventually it requires a few troll kills and so on. This can even be weighted by current skill so that people ACTUALLY actively playing are not impacted by the change at all while preventing the people who are acquiring active bonus while totally inactive.

On the other side, if your account has had no active bonus applied for x hours maybe the 5x should be slightly higher to allow casuals without advanced scripts to catch up.

The skill gain is well designed. I think with a few improvements it could create a more fun and balanced experience for casual and more active players.
 
#10
I don't see why the experience should be balanced between "casual" and "more active" players. If you play more, you deserve to progress faster.
Please read what I actually wrote if you want to provide input. All that does is derail discussion. At no point did I suggest casual and more active players should progress the same.
 

Domnu

Journeyman
#11
I think the idea of active bonus scaling with monster difficulty is a really good one. It mitigates the rampant scripted active bonus gains that have been going on since launch, and also incentivizes people to face off against more and more difficult creatures, which is both fun and more in line with the philosophy of rewarding active play.
 
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#12
At no point did I suggest casual and more active players should progress the same.
Neither did I. What I said was that...

I don't see why the experience should be balanced between "casual" and "more active" players. If you play more, you deserve to progress faster.
"What would help offset this is either weighted gains or a bonus to skill gain if you account has not been active for x hours." clearly implies that.
ie.: Give a bonus to less active players so they can "catch up" with more active players.

"After you have 5x active for 60 minutes it requires more "xp" to activate the bonus again." also implies that.
ie.: Make it harder for more active players to keep the 5x bonus going, in order to lessen the gap between them and less active players.

If I misunderstood you, simply make your idea clearer so there's no misunderstanding, no need to insinuate that I didn't read what you wrote to do that.
 

Domnu

Journeyman
#14
If I misunderstood you, simply make your idea clearer so there's no misunderstanding, no need to insinuate that I didn't read what you wrote to do that.
I think the concern that Kaladin is raising is that players are running fully automated macros that maintain active skill gain bonus for 24h/day without actually playing the game on the macroing character at all. He is suggesting that it would be preferable to limit players' ability to do this.
 
#15
Sure, but what he's suggesting will negatively impact everyone, not just players running advanced scripts. I have characters who can barely kill a bird on their own. With his suggestion, it would be pointless to play/train/macro them beyond the first hour of each day, because from that point on, I'd have to kill creatures I'm unable to kill in order to keep the active skill gain buff active...

Besides, if people "abuse" the 5x skill gain buff, it only means they'll be done completing their template and start actually playing their character faster than they would if they were stuck leveling at 1x speed, so I'm not even sure I agree this is a problem (but I'll let Owyn and Luthius decide... ie.: not my call). As far as I know, the only type of AFK macroing that is illegal is AFK gathering (eg.: skills which don't benefit from 5x), hence he's trying to fix something that isn't broken.
 
#16
well he said "This can even be weighted by current skill so that people ACTUALLY actively playing are not impacted by the change at all "

the 5x is a bonus, a reward for players actively playing, i dont understand why you find it ok that people abuse the system to get that bonus without deserving it, on top of that in a safe zone where they dont even risk being attacked while recalling in to nuke a bird.

it was a very welcome idea but it was prone to fail, macroing will always prevail.
what ive suggested 6y ago was to just go with a linear xp system like other rpgs and let players distribute skills as they kill shit.
that or train all combat skills on a npc for gold, not to 50 but to 7x100, failsafe and the code is already there.
 
#17
How long before afk macroing with active skill gain bonus is the norm for everyone?
I dunno like 4 free shards ago? Seriously those who have issues with skill gain whether afk or otherwise. Instead of complaining about the rate that you gain it maybe hook up with guilds or ask questions of others to help get you on the same playing field. Working together always seems to have a better outcome.
 
#18
i dont understand why you find it ok that people abuse the system to get that bonus without deserving it
I tend not to mind about things which don't negatively affect me, just like I tend to mind about those that do. AFK Macroers don't affect me. Raising the threshold to benefit from the 5x bonus would.

macroing will always prevail.
Exactly, which is why I don't see why the devs should "waste" time trying to fix the system when said time could be spent on more important things, but as I said, it's not my call to make, to decide if this issue is so bad that it warrants that new coding be implemented to prevent "abuse" of the 5x mechanic.

a linear xp system like other rpgs and let players distribute skills as they kill shit
No thanks. I like UO's skill system which rewards players for using skills.

that or train all combat skills on a npc for gold, not to 50 but to 7x100, failsafe and the code is already there.
That's even worse.
 
#19
i tend to mind about new players like i have been one those 6y ago, theres this point when you realize that everyones 20y ahead, not in terms of skill but in the way they exploit.
ive adapted to everything but trust me that revelations like these are ragequit material for some people.