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Stealth - Needs an overhaul?

#21
No it is pretty stupid as it is. A mage should not be able to reveal someone who invested 200 skill points to stay hidden like it is nothing. That is just bad design.
They can only do that if they know where you're hiding... And, let's face it, if they know where you're hiding, you're not really hiding...
 
#26
Wait, what? I don't understand what point you're trying to make, with this post or the previous...?
Very simple It takes zero dedicated skill points to cast reveal on someone. That invalidates 200 skill points that the hidden/stealthed character invested into.
That makes Zero skill greater than said 200 skill.
They should at the minimum have to invest equal skill points to have a chance to reveal a hidden player.
 
#27
Very simple It takes zero dedicated skill points to cast reveal on someone. That invalidates 200 skill points that the hidden/stealthed character invested into.
That makes Zero skill greater than said 200 skill.
They should at the minimum have to invest equal skill points to have a chance to reveal a hidden player.
Since when can you cast reveal with 0 magery?
 
#30
If you want to cast reveal you have to dedicate skill points to magery. I dunno what fucking language you are speaking.
English. Not sure where the hate anger is warranted but what ever.

Even if you, for some reason, want to say that you take magery ONLY to detect hidden people then you still have 100 skill vs 200. Even on OSI you had to have detect hidden to stand a chance to reveal someone.
 
#33
Burden of proof is on the claimant.

You claim casting reveal takes 0 dedicated skill points. I'm still waiting for you to cast reveal with 0 Margery- and that's not the only thing you claimed in this thread.. jeez you're so constructive!! *sigh*

Sorry you don't think callin you out is constructive, I disagree.
 
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#34
Very simple It takes zero dedicated skill points to cast reveal on someone. That invalidates 200 skill points that the hidden/stealthed character invested into.
That makes Zero skill greater than said 200 skill.
They should at the minimum have to invest equal skill points to have a chance to reveal a hidden player.
I disagree with your point of view on this matter. No one goes around casting "Wis Quas" at random. Like I said, if someone knows where you are hiding, you are not hidden from them, by any definition of the word. Thus, "dedicated" skill points are irrelevant... It simply makes no sense to be able to hide in plain sight from someone who is pursuing you and never lost LoS on you.

Look at it another way, getting enough Magery to reliably cast the Reveal spell costs a lot of gold. GM'ing Hiding+Stealth costs nothing, and it only takes about 80 hours of macroing without any active bonus to skill gain.

Even if you, for some reason, want to say that you take magery ONLY to detect hidden people then you still have 100 skill vs 200. Even on OSI you had to have detect hidden to stand a chance to reveal someone.
Not sure what era required Detect Hidden skill to reveal someone using Wis Quas, but I've never heard about it and I played on OSI from 1997 to 2004, while this shard is mostly based on T2A era (with elements from other eras, but generally speaking, it's pre UO:R and AoS), as far as I know.

That said, I googled "UO Reveal Detect Hidden Requirement" and found this bit from the official wiki : "Reveal will always reveal players hidden by the Invisibility spell, but against players using the Hiding skill it will check the target’s Hiding and Stealth skills against your Magery and Detect Hidden Skills." However, it doesn't say when this feature was implemented, but it was post-AoS, for sure. In any case, it was in the game in 2008 or before, as evidenced by the fact Reveal's page on UOGuide was written in 2008 and never modified to add a mention of that feature, which means it existed when the page was first written/published. UOGuide also mentions Tracking helps revealing hidden people: "Reveals the presence of any invisible creatures or players within the targeted tile. Chance to reveal is enhanced with the Tracking and Detecting Hidden skills. Targets with high Hiding and Stealth can resist being revealed."

If anything, I could agree with Detect Hidden and/or Tracking having an effect on Reveal spell's effective radius, but if a player can pinpoint the exact tile where you're standing (ie.: knows exactly where you're hiding), then I don't see why you'd suggest he should require dedicated skill points in order to reveal your presence, that's just silly, in my opinion.

Edit: I just found the exact publish/date this was implemented : Publish 25, on July 13th 2004 : "Reveal uses magery and detect hidden vs. hide and stealth"
 
#36
OK then leave it as it is to reveal and give stealth its backstab bonus in pvp.
Magery does EVERYTHING in this game, it should not get to do EVERYTHING better than everything else.

Sweet there is an ignore feature on the forums, best thing ever.
 
#37
well I think the devs keep pumping out updates which keeps me excited to check out the patches each day and how things will evolve. they can also track meta on what skills are being used etc . Hopefully everything keeps continuing to evolve as being useful
 
#38
OK then leave it as it is to reveal and give stealth its backstab bonus in pvp.
Magery does EVERYTHING in this game, it should not get to do EVERYTHING better than everything else.
So... UO shouldn't be UO?

It's all about risk vs reward...

Magery is pretty much the (combat) skill which requires the most investment to GM and which costs the most materials to actively use, so I think it is to be expected that it would be superior to other skills...?

A stealthy can kill people using only their (free) skills and their weapon. If they fail, all they lose is their weapon. Meanwhile, when a Mage dies, they usually lose 1k gp worth of regs, assuming that's all they're carrying.

This server was in beta for so long, I'm not sure why people want rule changes 2 weeks after its launch.

Balance changes are one thing, I'm not saying everything is perfectly balanced, but Backstab in PvP?! A solo stealthy can already abuse other players, by himself and it only gets worse when they hunt in packs, giving them Backstab bonus would break the game.

  • Damage bonus for Backstab attack ranges from +450% to +1000%, scaled based on weapon speed
  • A player's accuracy when making backstab attacks is +25%
  • Players have a +25% chance to to inflict poison from a weapon when making backstab attacks
Don't you think it would be a little OP to grant those bonuses in PvP...?

A stealthed PvPer would basically have 75% chance to hit someone with the same weapon skill level as he has, plus a very good chance to apply poison, assuming he's using Poisoning and deal up to +1000% damage from the actual hit?! And all that in addition to the fact they can play opportunistically by waiting the perfect moment to strike, something no other PvPer (or PK) can do...?

And you complain about Magery doing everything better than other skills...?

I'm not sure if you're serious, trolling or just so bad at the game that you need rules to be changed so you can feel good, but there are people who are good at the game and that would turn into gods with the changes you're suggesting, and that's without even considering a whole group of them...

Please try to think about the big picture when making suggestions...
 
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#39
So... UO shouldn't be UO?

This server was in beta for so long, I'm not sure why people want rule changes 2 weeks after its launch.

Don't you think it would be a little OP to grant those bonuses in PvP...?

A stealthed PvPer would basically have 75% chance to hit someone with the same weapon skill level as he has, plus a very good chance to apply deadly poison, assuming he's using Poisoning and deal up to +1000% damage from the actual hit?! And all that in addition to the fact they can play opportunistically by waiting the perfect moment to strike, something no other PvPer (or PK) can do...?

Server being in beta, in the way that it was, resulted in a lot of things being overlooked that are only now coming to light.
So someone with say in your example having at least 500 skill points dedicated to it should be powerful, and then you get to take into account they would have to rehide and wait to be able to even try the attack again if it failed.

Big picture is a little hard to see when you only look at it through the eyes of a mage?
 
#40
I do agree that the reveal spell is way too over powered and should only have a chance to reveal a GM hide GM stealther. At 70 magery and 0 eval int, that is a 100% chance reveal.

4 stealth buddy's all with heavy xboxs. Inset Bennie Hill music, theme song. LOL Those back hits are insane in the membrain!