Aspect “core prices” discussion

[oroechimaru]

Placeholder for popular discord discussion item from laws of supply and demand economics:


Its economics “price equilibrium”

A. More aspects dilutes the drop rates of older aspects (lowers supply gained/drop rates) > drives price up

B. High demand from active player base > drives price up

C. High amount needed from higher tiers, redline etc > reduces supply > drive prices up

D. Greed or lack of easy trade systems (limited supply, stuff sits in banks) > drives prices up

E. Generosity from vets / gifts / roomates > reduces demand > reduces price

F. Players farming at higher rates (high dps) increases supply > lowers costs
- newer / low tier players with less chains may feel their “aspect finding rate is much slower”

G. Higher requirements for cores to level aspect than extracts

H. New systems helps loot pool (more activities) or reduces it (more items drop , less cores found in tmaps etc)

I. Time: player finds pvp enjoyable and skips pvm but now wants pvm and needs it asap (pay more)

J. Demand, effectiveness of aspects (command multi boost dps bonus on a high dps base build)

Each factor impacts the price equilibrium. Each one can be tweaked.

- increase drop rates per x aspect released
- new activities
- more mobs spreads is out reduces waiting
- dungeons or difficulty mobs
-more gph/dps over time increased drop rate, fortune aspect or links
-players choosing less dps chains for increased loot links
-lower core aspect leveling requirements
- easier trade market for common items (cores, aspect etc) similar to animal market

 

[oroechimaru]

I am from the viewpoint of “keep things similar to now without major overhauls, minor tweaking to loot pool rates to compensate last 5-6 aspects” because long term dps across the board and therefore drop rates may increase from expansion.

New or different aspect demand will increase and impact the market too.

Or just buff core drop rates 25%

 

[oroechimaru]

Dys had a good example of supply/demand

Due to high demand the price of cores are much higher than extract, a key driver being the much larger aspect activation cost for cores over extracts

Ideas from folks in discord:
A. Increase core drop rates in dungeons 2x

B. Lower core cost for aspect levels or at least level 12+ where the quantity ramps up

C. Or just simplify everything to x total cores OR extracts

D. Or turn all cores into extracts. Everything that uses x cores is then x extracts + original y extracts

Example; 6 extracts, 12 cores
- make it 18 extracts total instead

 

[Laughing Skull]

A large chunk of cores used to be garbage. I think the adjustments to core drops has rectified that somewhat.

However, there are a few aspects (Harvest, Command) that everyone is piling on which inflates their values. I mean, if people want to do this, let them. You can get several aspect suits in the 20k/core range.

But, I do wonder why we have to have different aspect/extracts anyways. Why can't a 'Command Core' or an 'Earth Extract' just be like Core Essence or Extract Essence useable by any aspect?

 

[jaboticabal]

Here are some ideas that would have a huge impact...

Problem 1: The whole "30 core" thing is putting major pressure on a resource that is needed by the lowliest of player. That is a broken mechanic; there really should be almost nothing that a newbie should want that an end-gamer with millions in gold and $100k/hr farm rate should desperately want also and be willing to spend anything to get.
Solution 1: Add a 3rd item required for 12+ aspect levels. Super simple. In fact, double down and actually decrease the core requirement as you get closer/above lvl 12, so it's a bimodal distribution of cores needed for aspect level (starting low, increasing, then decreasing as you approach lvl 12), but start requiring a 3rd new thing that is farmable in high-end dungeons and available in t-chests and stuff. Now newbies won't compete with their $5k/hr farm rate with the player making $100k/hr+ and who needs 10x the number of the same thing.

Problem 2: Hoarding. Last week I saw 70 cores go up (I needed 4 of them) and were completely bought out within 22min of hitting outlandmalls by some obvious end-gamer who dropped 7 figures to do it. That is a problem. I remember the days when there were vendors selling cores where you could always find the core you needed, and we all just bought what we needed for the level we were trying to unlock, and left the others for the next player. Those days are shattered and gone.
Solution 2: Cores expire in 7 days. Part 2 to this: you can consume cores as you get them, without it being all-or-none for your next aspect level. That way, you consume what you need, you immediately sell what you don't. No "saving for later". I know this would be much less popular than the above solution, but I think it would prevent chest-bloat in houses and banks allover the world. Just like the way magical items become arcane essence, make players consume cores or sell them. Honestly, I'm guilty of hoarding a few of some aspects I want to try some day, because I'm deathly afraid of what it'll cost when I go to use them someday.

Problem 3: Decreased drop rate despite growing player rate. I'm sure overall it's increased, but it sure doesn't feel like it's proportionate. Seriously, I farm longer to get fewer cores than when I needed fewer cores. I started playing in the first month of the game, but have been super casual (with a year or two absent here or there). I am still surprised that cores are not longer part of many many t-maps. Used to love relying on always getting at least 1 out of even the lowest level of t-map. And I can go hours in a dungeon without seeing one now as well.
Solution: Maybe some kind of "per-player-hour" drop rate. So, whether you're farming $100k/hr or $5k/hr, you have a mob drop 1 core. There are lots of problems with this, but it's an idea, ranked 3 because it's the worst...

 

[oroechimaru]

Dysharmony made a good point in Discord today, the cost to entry for new players (my concern) is much lower now than 12 + 6 costs in days of old. The first few tears are affordable, after that they also made a good point that we can "all trade", so hopefully new players find valuable aspects and trade them.

My idea to that: consider an aspect public market, magic item in game public market similar to pets if it was effective on the economy? Prices will move faster than an online website.

 

[jaboticabal]

the cost to entry for new players (my concern) is much lower now than 12 + 6 costs in days of old

So, I started Outlands on the day of its launch (I was an original UO player in the 90's on launch day as well). I'm super casual, so I went a couple years without playing. I will say that 12 + 6 was easier back then compared to 1 + 2 now, as a new player. That's a bold statement, but it's just plain true. I never was unable to move to the next tier because of inability to farm the cores myself plus buy one here or there if I didn't quite get there. Thankfully I ended up playing a lot for a few months and got a bard to level 12 before the economy really went haywire, but even with what feels like a ton of gold, I don't know that I'll ever get to level up (even though I have all the XP needed for the next level - those 30 cores are just out of reach).

So, "less cores" doesn't mean "cheaper" because of the way the economy went sideways when tiers started costing 30 cores.

 

[Laughing Skull]

So, I started Outlands on the day of its launch (I was an original UO player in the 90's on launch day as well). I'm super casual, so I went a couple years without playing. I will say that 12 + 6 was easier back then compared to 1 + 2 now, as a new player. That's a bold statement, but it's just plain true. I never was unable to move to the next tier because of inability to farm the cores myself plus buy one here or there if I didn't quite get there. Thankfully I ended up playing a lot for a few months and got a bard to level 12 before the economy really went haywire, but even with what feels like a ton of gold, I don't know that I'll ever get to level up (even though I have all the XP needed for the next level - those 30 cores are just out of reach).

So, "less cores" doesn't mean "cheaper" because of the way the economy went sideways when tiers started costing 30 cores.

From what I am understanding, correct me if I am wrong, you want the ability to instantly unlock the next tier of your aspect as soon as you meet the XP requirement? The fact that you might have to save up to unlock that aspect is somehow "too much"? God forbid we have a sense of accomplishment, right?

My crafter has been stuck at tier 13 Artisan for months now and I've been saving up the cores for the unlock. I've been saving for years to get the perfect house to decoreate. I'm also saving for chain links to fill my chain as well. Should I not have to save for any of this as well?

 

[jaboticabal]

correct me if I am wrong

At your request, I'm correcting your wrongness.

Let me be clear that this is a great game and these are nitpicky details at best. But, this is a forum, and we all "nitpick" here.

You act as though aspect level 1 = level 15. "Saving up" for a high tier is one thing. Being unable to even unlock a low tier is where the problem lies, and which is the extreme example of what is happening. Try unlocking tier 2 of command, or one of the other insane expensive aspects. Some would say "well just stay away from expensive aspects". Sure, that's what everyone must do, at this point. Not by choice, but because of an unintentional consequence of a somewhat misguided policy. And, I would think the game would be a richer experience if lower levels were accessible to new players. Sure, if you want to get to high levels of tiers, that'll be out of reach to all but the die-hards. They get to save up for

Don't get too worked up about this all @laughing, I sure don't. But, it's a forum and I think the game would be better if the economy were more balanced. I don't believe the status quo was ever the intent of the designers. I don't believe they decided "let's make certain aspects so out of reach for players that only the top 2% can even start it". But that's how it is. That doesn't fit the design, and I think there are ways to address it which I've suggested above.

In the meantime.... I'll see you in Wildlands!

 

[Laughing Skull]

At your request, I'm correcting your wrongness.

Let me be clear that this is a great game and these are nitpicky details at best. But, this is a forum, and we all "nitpick" here.

You act as though aspect level 1 = level 15. "Saving up" for a high tier is one thing. Being unable to even unlock a low tier is where the problem lies, and which is the extreme example of what is happening. Try unlocking tier 2 of command, or one of the other insane expensive aspects. Some would say "well just stay away from expensive aspects". Sure, that's what everyone must do, at this point. Not by choice, but because of an unintentional consequence of a somewhat misguided policy. And, I would think the game would be a richer experience if lower levels were accessible to new players. Sure, if you want to get to high levels of tiers, that'll be out of reach to all but the die-hards. They get to save up for

Don't get too worked up about this all @laughing, I sure don't. But, it's a forum and I think the game would be better if the economy were more balanced. I don't believe the status quo was ever the intent of the designers. I don't believe they decided "let's make certain aspects so out of reach for players that only the top 2% can even start it". But that's how it is. That doesn't fit the design, and I think there are ways to address it which I've suggested above.

In the meantime.... I'll see you in Wildlands!

I think our perspectives are just different here. Core prices are set by us players. If everyone wants to jump on the current meta and pay the meta price.... that's on them. There are plenty of useable aspects out there much more reasonbly priced.

New players do have a grind in front of them. But the grind is easier now than it has ever been. DPS is up, survivability is up, GPH is up. There are a lot of things working for them. Not to mention, if you get lucky with a core drop (command, harvest, fortune, air, etc...) you can nearly fund your entire new player start up.

 

[oroechimaru]

Today’s patch helps a ton
A. Better drops

B. Use of old items to prevent expansion making supply even smaller (price spike)