What's new

Housing Discussion

#61
I read some more and I don't think there should be any favorability towards rich or poorer players in ANY way. Only changes that favor player activity but allow for small breaks which may mean decreasing the IDOC but there should also be incentives to being active. Maybe a tax on inactivity that is based on the house durability then the home goes up for auction when the player cannot afford the tax and the player gets 50-75% of the total highest bid to their bank?(assuming the house doesn't make it to IDOC)
 
Last edited:
#62
These changes should be ALL or nothing. Favoritism should NOT apply. Big house or small house. No exceptions. I know some of the richest players in the server only own one small house FULLY LOADED with more rares and worth than you'd see in a max size plot. Don't make the rules for only some and not others. I'm sick of the favoritism.
A 50k house (not any small house but specifically those generic boxes) with hardly anything in it is not being used as a house, just a place holder which is the target here. Honestly making the sales easier with the sign change and being able to make an offer on the house might be enough to get the market moving and solve the problem. You have people running around looking for a placement, not checking signs for houses that are for sale.
 
#63
To be clear, a few of these options have catastrophic effects on this server, in my humble opinion. The rest are viable options that don't have the potential to ruin the shard for anyone. Namely the tools to allow the real estate market to work better. I would highly recommend exploring that route **First**. You could really hurt the ebb and flow of players that every UO server has and potentially harm the shard and the experience.

Not only do I think these particular options are bad, but I think they are dangerous:
  • Quicker house decay times (30 days to IDOC)
  • Only owners can refresh
  • Taxes/fees related to owning houses
These options increase the chances of a break turning into a permanent good bye. Guild Houses and people working together to buy a house at risk as well. It would be a critical change to the game, especially considering how expensive the larger houses are and how long it takes to raise the funds to place them.
 
#64
I think we need to get off this, "only new players" kick. New players complain about this and that, work harder! We were all new players at one point, and we all got to where we are now from investing hard work and dedication to this server. You shouldn't have it easy because you look at rich players and want to catch up quickly. You haven't gone through what others have and you don't deserve a handout. It should be a change for everyone and benefit everyone or hinder everyone.
I actually agree with this comment.
 
#65
These options increase the chances of a break turning into a permanent good bye.
90 Days is a long time in game and if you can't log in once to open and shut a door you are no longer a part of the community. Players need to make arrangements and sell assets if they want anything of value to return to. If you are not here contributing the the life blood of the server from time to time(once every 30-60 days) you are contributing to it's death by holding on to a housing spot for a prolonged period of time, especially an empty housing plot. Thank Owyn and team for not letting dirt plots be a thing here but empty houses are still pretty ugly and void of personality. I had to ask around about why there are so many empty houses and the answers I got where pretty discouraging 90 days ago.

Preferential treatment SHOULD be given to the active players. Preferential treatment SHOULD NOT be given to new/old or poor/rich players.

If you really just don't want to see a guild house go IDOC then just give the first CO-owner on the list ownership after 90 days no account activity and go down the list until the first Co-owner and then friend without a house who has assisted in refreshing and give them the house. Keep someone you trust in your first Co-owner/friend slot if you expect a long break.
 
#66
The server would definitely benefit from adding an additional land mass. I don't think there should be any sort of restrictions on placing on it. I dislike the idea of owning property inside towns (assuming that's what was proposed). I think the IDOC timers are way too high and need to be halved.
 
#67
  • Quicker house decay times (30 days to IDOC)
  • Unsolicited sale offers (meaning you can be offered to sell even if the house is not for sale)
  • Houses that are for sale have a different house sign to indicate they are for sale
  • Perks for only owning 1 house per account group

These options seem the most viable without causing too much backlash or segregation than the other options. Most of us are used to the old IDOC times and could do with faster decay rates and those who are dedicated or intend to play again can still find 1 day every 30 to log in and refresh.

If someone offered to buy my plot for 1m even if i didnt have it up for sale; I'd sell it :D I like this idea a lot. And making signs different to show they are for sale is an obvious, but great, idea!

I like the idea of perks for 1 account per house group but how do you verify that? Link accounts via an email or something that then applies the perks? What do these details entail? I am very very curious as I am used to owning 1 house for 3 accounts heh!

Also, I sort of like the idea of seeing a "full world"... it makes the economy strong because demand is high for certain things; there is only a problem when too many vets who don't play anymore are keeping their properties updated... How about the whole guild prestige island thing? Players can place plots if they are in the same guild on these islands right? That makes more sense than making a new map (although maybe more drama for defunct guild members on these islands who quit the guild... maybe u have 30 days to remove ur house if u are removed from the guild or quit?)

Keep up the great work and i can't say thank you enough for your attention to the communities voice, staff! Huzzah!!
 
#68
These three all feel like no-brainers, no downside:
  • Unsolicited sale offers (meaning you can be offered to sell even if the house is not for sale)
  • Houses that are for sale have a different house sign to indicate they are for sale
  • Ability to lock doors in public houses (I assume this one basically means let 'private' houses have vendors)
I would be interested to see the % of houses that consist of 8x8s with little to no furnishings/stuff inside it - is that a query that can be run? I suspect that it's a lot of them. Are there players that have like 3 courtyards or towers or something? Who knows. Would be curious to see # of accounts w/ houses, # of 'players' that represents, % of accounts that have each kind of house.

Also definitely clear more space - maybe more islands or cleaning up some of the ratman forts in the middle of the map that nobody really uses like another poster mentioned.

Even though most people are against any kind of property tax/upkeep, I think from an Economics perspective, that it's probably the most likely to be effective in changing people's behavior (and probably why people are complaining the most about it). People spam 8x8s because there is zero upkeep and you can maybe sell it for 300k or more later to a neighbor. If it cost 10k a month to upkeep, people might be more keen to sell/not do that. There should be a freebie (for your 3 accounts, you get one 8x8 free of upkeep) but I'm not really seeing why people should be able to hoard empty houses without consequence.
 

Jack

Journeyman
#69
You won't be able to tax heavily enough to change the habits of established players.. Taxes are a burdeon to newer players.

I understand the reluctance to increase the landmass, Outlands map being such a treasure. At some point it should be discussed.

How about rentable apartments in towns for newer players? Prevalia and Cambria are huge.
 
#70
  • Quicker house decay times (30 days to IDOC)
  • Only owners can refresh
  • Unsolicited sale offers (meaning you can be offered to sell even if the house is not for sale)
  • Houses that are for sale have a different house sign to indicate they are for sale
  • New land masses only available for house placement to newer players, based on account age
  • Taxes/fees related to owning houses
  • Perks for only owning 1 house per account group
  • Ability to lock doors in public houses

The green ones above, I agree fully with - zero reason not to move forward with these, they just add to the ease of selling. Btw, someone mentioned that you can go to a real estate NPC in game, and see the houses currently for sale - and get a map to find the house - honestly, promote this feature more - there's plenty of houses for sale.

The ones in red above, I completely disagree with - new land masses for housing based on account age is a horrible idea, do you kick people out after a certain age? Taxes/fees related to owning houses - as much as I can appreciate the idea, let's not make the game more of a chore, it's enough of a grind.

The ones in orange, I semi agree with - with some caveats. After 60 days, of no owner refreshes, the owner can now only refresh. The Quicker house decay times at 30 days is fine by me, but tied to the new owner refresh rules. that gives a player 90 days essentially, 3 months, to log in. If for whatever reason you can't log in for 90 days, it's on you to reach out to staff, and ask for a 1 time reprieve/reset. (not sure logistically how that last part works). In terms of ability to lock doors in public houses - is it possible to make it only inner doors that can be locked?

Lastly what I'd love to see here instead of a new land mass, is dozens of apartments, within the cities, or on the outskirts, which you can rent for a monthly fee if your account age is under 90 days - you are unable to lock down or decorate, if you fail to pay rent, or hit your 90 days, the items move to your bank, which you'd need to get under your item cap to be able to put stuff in the bank again. Additionally, allow us to secure doors/chests to specific characters, so we can use some of the housing styles to create our own apartments for new players.
 
Last edited:
#71
You won't be able to tax heavily enough to change the habits of established players.. Taxes are a burdeon to newer players.

I understand the reluctance to increase the landmass, Outlands map being such a treasure. At some point it should be discussed.

How about rentable apartments in towns for newer players? Prevalia and Cambria are huge.
The purpose of a house tax isn't to bankrupt rich players into submission. It's to make hoarding 8x8s uneconomical. Look at the for sale listings and the Outlands discord real estate channel. It's a ton of people trying to sell 8x8s that they placed for 50k for 100-200k+, and they don't care if it takes months to do it, because there's no carrying cost. If they had to pay 10-20k per month, they would not have placed it in the first place and would get the feed back.

Also once any kind of change is made, there should definitely be a one week period during which people should be able to sell back their deeds for 100% of what they paid to NPC vendors/a holiday on the usual 10% sell back penally.

Town apartments would be dope tho. Millennials love urban living. Can we get some hipster tavernkeepers with tattoos and blue hair? Coffee shops?
 

Jack

Journeyman
#72
Deeds from fallen houses should go to bank box of the owner. That may encourage a player to return. If they don't it's a wash. Retaining players is harder than attracting then.

For new player apartment housing, perhaps a coupon in the backpack of the first character created an an account.
 
#73
Look at the for sale listings and the Outlands discord real estate channel. It's a ton of people trying to sell 8x8s that they placed for 50k for 100-200k+
You say this as though it's a problem, but that's what an 8x8 should cost a year after launch. The land itself has value.

I don't think we have a shortage of housing on this shard at all, what we have is a shortage of common sense on the part of new players. If you want free land, start doing idocs and fight for those spots. Otherwise, you need to suck it up and pay as you would for any other commodity.

 
#74
You say this as though it's a problem, but that's what an 8x8 should cost a year after launch. The land itself has value.

I don't think we have a shortage of housing on this shard at all, what we have is a shortage of common sense on the part of new players. If you want free land, start doing idocs and fight for those spots. Otherwise, you need to suck it up and pay as you would for any other commodity.
Doesn't sound like you agree with Owyn, and that's fine, but I don't see what it's got to do with me.

Granting people the ability to claim the land in this way is dev choice. If they're happy with how it's working out, then fair enough, it's not my server, they're entitled to their choices. You can just reply to his original post, saying, housing should be scarce, actually it's awesome that there's no more housing other than what earlier players are willing to sell for 8x the cost, and none of this is a problem in any way and nothing should be done about this non-problem.

But that doesn't seem to be the thrust of Owyn's post.

It seems like the devs are wondering if there might be adverse consequences to allowing everyone to claim 3x 8x8s of land with 0 upkeep. I agree that if that's the design choice, then the likely consequence is that players buy up all the plots and charge several times that. If the design choice is different, then the consequences may be different. Land definitely isn't free in the US - there is property tax, everywhere, and has been for a long time, partially to prevent exactly this sort of hoarding. Otherwise, everyone in New York would still be renting their land from the Duke of York.
 
Last edited:

Jack

Journeyman
#75
Houses cost more than they used to. But gold is easier for new players now than it was at launch. Join a guild and get suited up with passable gear. Or solo gathering resources that fetch double what they used to. Outlands has never been UO on easy mode.
 
#76
I agree with Jack here, UO is not easy mode and housing is a privilege. But the empty houses with mystery owners are annoying and ugly, might as well be dirt plots.

It's not just 8x8s, it's inactive houses period. There are many houses within 100 tiles of my home that seem to get refreshed in waves together and only 2 small houses are for sale at sign for 250k and 300k. I've been at my location for well over a month and have seen no activity or word on the market for most of these houses.
1573135787500.png
 

ErikGray

Seer
Counselor
#77
Just throwing out my own personal opinions on these:

  • Quicker house decay times (30 days to IDOC)
    • This is a good idea. I particularly like @AreYouKidden 's idea of allowing friends to refresh a house for the first 60 days if the owner hasn't refreshed it, and then the following 30 days can only be refreshed by the owner. 90 days total is definitely very reasonable for anyone worried about their house during a long break away from UO to make arrangements or even pop in just once to refresh it.
  • Only owners can refresh
    • Tied in with the above point.
  • Unsolicited sale offers (meaning you can be offered to sell even if the house is not for sale)
    • Fantastic idea, love it!
  • Houses that are for sale have a different house sign to indicate they are for sale
    • Another fantastic idea!
  • New land masses only available for house placement to newer players, based on account age
    • Ehhhh... Not a big fan of new-player only housing. New land masses to explore and such are always fun, though.
    • I really like the suggestions some people had about renting rooms in towns. I actually played on a shard that allowed for this. You could rent rooms in the various Inns in towns for X gold/week or month. It basically gave you extra storage, not too much else. There's plenty of opportunity for that in the existing buildings in the towns of Avadon. You could also rent out rooms/buildings in other places in the various towns for more money per week.
  • Taxes/fees related to owning houses
    • I actually kind of like this idea but with a caveat. I would say that your first house (or most expensive house, or something) does not get taxed. Any subsequent houses get taxed based on their size/value/whatever. The idea here is not to punish anyone, rich or poor, for having a house, but hopefully discourage house hoarding or at least create another type of gold sink. This way you can easily have one house without any issues, but you must remain at least a bit active to maintain multiple houses across your account group. This also makes it so players who like to play the real-estate game need to be more active in their selling of their excess houses and creates a bit of risk when they try to flip the house (will it sell fast for a good profit? Or will it sit there forever and slowly drain funds?)
  • Perks for only owning 1 house per account group
    • Could tie in to the above point.
    • Potential perks for owning a single house per account group could include an increase in lockdowns and secures, an expanded co-owner/friend list, maybe some unique decor options (house wall dyes?), unique NPC hireables, etc. Plenty of great options to incentivize having a single house but not punish having multiple houses.
  • Ability to lock doors in public houses
    • Fantastic idea. Personally I think a public house might need to have its front door unlocked but allow all interior doors to be locked - otherwise you might as well just make it so you can just place a vendor in any house you own regardless of public/private settings, since that is all this really will effect otherwise.
    • Can this be abused? Can a vendor be hidden away in a locked house for cheap extra storage? Or can you buy stuff off of vendors regardless of line of sight? I never actually tested that :)
 
#78
When I played on Angel Island they had a solution that may be interesting to your situation.

House decay timers were not refreshed by opening the house door. Instead you maintained your house by moving around inside the gameworld. One hour of active play would restore one day of maintenance onto the house owned by that account, with a maximum storage of 120 days.

Many people on this thread have mentioned concern for people taking a long break for personal reasons, and many have tried to find an equalizer for old rich accounts and new poor accounts. I think that having houses maintained by active play and having a high cap on the banked decay timer would be a good compromise for all these concerns.
 
#79
for those who complained about the absurd prices of the houses.
Why not put a fee to advertise the house, the same, or more expensive, as the vendors? People puts an absurd price on the house, stands still for months, will start to suck his money
 
Last edited:
#80
New sland only to new players I don’t think a good idea.
For exemple: I’m playing more than 4 months and my first and unique house is a little with 4 secure lol!
Ulntil today I m holding all itens of 3 accs in this house, but I needing to buy a bigger. (And i farming a lot )

I think that players able to put house at new sland do not have any house with more than 10 secures in your 3 accs. If he have need to sell to be able to put the new house at the new sland.