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Housing Discussion

ADXE

Neophyte
I'm not sure I 100% agree with a faster timer, and someone losing it all for not logging in because they go on vacation - though there is merit in it. I think a couple of ideas to flush this out fully, because a faster timer could work if:
  • allowing a once per 180 day extension - where if you had a planned leave for up to 4 weeks, you could protect your home for that long.
  • all contents of a house, fall to your bank - and change IDOC's entirely so a person doesn't come back to nothing if they are unable to log in for any reason to refresh their house.
If the person is gone forever, those items leave the economy.. If they come back, they have something they can sell to start up again.. While it's a huge change to IDOC's, right now people are getting rich on another person leaving the server, which is a joke in itself.
I don't think you really need any extension. At least for Small Houses and Caravans. Need to fix the idea of holding onto something. That's what drives the prices up. If you're gone then learn to live with it. Sell your house and buy a new one when you get back. Time to stop the Long process of your house sitting there forever and ever. If you think that the game is going to end because you had to sell your house, that's what is holding everyone back right now and driving up the prices. At least half the houses out there right now are empty.

If people would just let houses go up for sale there would be less economy in it and people would actually sell their house at a fair price because they know they can easily get back into another one without having to wait. It'd be great to have small houses available for less than 500k.
 

ADXE

Neophyte
I think my favorite idea is going to be make each property cost 50k a year to renew. Otherwise it goes up for sale for purchase price.
 

AreYouKidden

Legendary
There should be loss in IDOC so that there is incentive to refresh. Plus those items can often be rares and other items that should be kept in the economy and shard. It also makes an exciting event and has always been a tradition of being a side hobby or whatever you want to call it in UO.
To be honest I struggled with this one too - but you are losing the price of the house for when you bought it - deed and/or inflation due to housing economy - and if they don't come back all of it's being lost.. That's your loss & incentive to refresh, and having something in the bank to start with is your incentive to come back, instead of saying screw it, I'm not starting from scratch again. The rares though is the hardest loss, because I do agree, would hate to see those fall out of circulation - perhaps items marked rare finding a way to be re-distributed would go a long way - finding a place in the world, where they are quietly placed randomly, and having a rares dealer able to tell you if there are any rares in the world at any point in time - maybe costs you 5k gold to find out. Let the explorers look for their easter eggs.

And them doing so is perfectly valid. IDOC hunting is not as simple as walking past a house as it falls and the items fall in your lap. It is a very big and time intensive effort to be worthwhile over time. Tracking them, as well as fighting over them and claiming the spoils. The effort and time involved is likely comparable to farming anything one manages to get out in the first place. The rewards are just given all at once instead of a mob at a time.

IDOC hunting is perfectly valid and so is profiting off them.
IDOC's are such a controversial subject - and your reasoning is valid, and currently IDOCs are perfectly valid and so is profiting off of them. Yet - I disagree entirely, I just see IDOC's as a net negative, with a member of the community leaving, would rather all of it (minus the rares) just disappear out of the economy if they don't come back, making the economy stronger as a whole. But I also hesitate because I also love the mini event they can create on the shard with the PK's & conflict they can create - so it's really a sitting on the fence situation.
 

AreYouKidden

Legendary
I don't think you really need any extension. At least for Small Houses and Caravans. Need to fix the idea of holding onto something. That's what drives the prices up. If you're gone then learn to live with it. Sell your house and buy a new one when you get back. Time to stop the Long process of your house sitting there forever and ever. If you think that the game is going to end because you had to sell your house, that's what is holding everyone back right now and driving up the prices. At least half the houses out there right now are empty.

If people would just let houses go up for sale there would be less economy in it and people would actually sell their house at a fair price because they know they can easily get back into another one without having to wait. It'd be great to have small houses available for less than 500k.
2 weeks isn't even long enough to let someone enjoy a brief moment in life away from the game (if we're talking 2 week owner only refresh - if your talking having friends refresh for you, that's different). 2 - 2.5 weeks is long enough in general, but not long enough for someone to take a healthy break from the game, and life, due to a well deserved vacation - if your going to have that tight of a timeline - and maybe every 180 days for a longer break is too often, but some sort of compromise needs to be made, so a person can take that healthy break.. Plus absence makes the heart grow fonder..

Reality is if it's a 1 week IDOC or 2 month IDOC if a person desires to keep their property up, they'll find a way to do so, the 2.5 weeks just speeds up a cycle for those who have moved on. These aren't meant to be temporary residencies to move on from every 3rd week, especially with the amount of money some of us sink into decorating our abodes.

I think my favorite idea is going to be make each property cost 50k a year to renew. Otherwise it goes up for sale for purchase price.
50k literally is nothing to anyone playing - we hand out 50k checks to new players like they are candy - but I fully 100% support having taxed land after the first house on an account - and/or after a certain sized plot, like anything over 15x15 (225).
 

ADXE

Neophyte
2 weeks isn't even long enough to let someone enjoy a brief moment in life away from the game (if we're talking 2 week owner only refresh - if your talking having friends refresh for you, that's different). 2 - 2.5 weeks is long enough in general, but not long enough for someone to take a healthy break from the game, and life, due to a well deserved vacation - if your going to have that tight of a timeline - and maybe every 180 days for a longer break is too often, but some sort of compromise needs to be made, so a person can take that healthy break.. Plus absence makes the heart grow fonder..

Reality is if it's a 1 week IDOC or 2 month IDOC if a person desires to keep their property up, they'll find a way to do so, the 2.5 weeks just speeds up a cycle for those who have moved on. These aren't meant to be temporary residencies to move on from every 3rd week, especially with the amount of money some of us sink into decorating our abodes.



50k literally is nothing to anyone playing - we hand out 50k checks to new players like they are candy - but I fully 100% support having taxed land after the first house on an account - and/or after a certain sized plot, like anything over 15x15 (225).
If this is the case, then make small houses cost 250k to purchase, and each "property" cost 50k a year to renew or it goes up for sale at purchase price.
 

Basia

Master
I feel like your points are contradicting somewhat. Obviously not everyone has the same earning power as you, but a week of play to regain some foothold in real estate doesn’t sound too bad.
My points aren't contradicting at all, and if you had played here since launch and owned homes full of rare and valuable stuff, placed in locations that you love, that you'd put a great deal of time and money into decorating, you would understand that.

You haven't put the work in yet, so you can't really appreciate the value of what you want to make it easy for players to lose.
 

ADXE

Neophyte
My points aren't contradicting at all, and if you had played here since launch and owned homes full of rare and valuable stuff, placed in locations that you love, that you'd put a great deal of time and money into decorating, you would understand that.

You haven't put the work in yet, so you can't really appreciate the value of what you want to make it easy for players to lose.
Sorry to quote you but this is my point exactly. A property owned since launch full of valuable stuff in a grand location. Will probably be there forever.

It's great that you own your little slice of heaven forever while we all fight over Caravans and small houses costing 3-4 mil. Why don't you take a stand to let others enjoy a part of the game that just seems to sit there and collect dust for you. Try helping some others achieve even a small portion of what you've enjoyed and help to create a more fair and equal housing environment. Make houses fun for everyone not just an old dusty tomb on your corner shelf.

Stop hoarding property. That's all we're saying. Limit ownership.

- rant.
 
All these work-arounds add unnecessary complexity to what a taxation system would solve and so much more.

When 8x8's are going for 500k+, you not only have a real estate problem but you have the classic UO inflation problem. Property tax helps to fix both of those.

If someone has an issue with paying the gold to maintain a 30x30, they should downsize into something they can maintain. You guys seem to think i'm proposing a large amount of gold per week but this can honestly be any amount deemed appropriate based on house size.
 
When 8x8's are going for 500k+, you not only have a real estate problem but you have the classic UO inflation problem. Property tax helps to fix both of those.
Why is this a problem specific to housing?

I get it. Inflation is a problem, but that is a problem across the board and the devs are working diligently to soften the effects of it. But you act like housing has a unique problem. 8x8s are going for 500k because that is what the market says they cost. You can STILL PLACE YOUR VERY OWN WAGON for just the deed cost at 250k. I get it, the wagon is small, but you got to start somewhere. It is quite the sense of entitlement if you want an upgraded house as a newbie (upgraded house meaning 8x8, because that is an upgrade over the wagon).

Disclaimer: I still think housing should be limited on an IP basis for reasons HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COST OF HOUSING.
 
Make a housing renting system, like vendors but for entire houses. This way house owners that are taking a break can leave their (empty) houses for rent for a predetermined period of time. Homeless players can pay some rent (part to the owner and part to the state) and use those houses that otherwise would only gather dust.
 
Why is this a problem specific to housing?

I get it. Inflation is a problem, but that is a problem across the board and the devs are working diligently to soften the effects of it. But you act like housing has a unique problem. 8x8s are going for 500k because that is what the market says they cost. You can STILL PLACE YOUR VERY OWN WAGON for just the deed cost at 250k. I get it, the wagon is small, but you got to start somewhere. It is quite the sense of entitlement if you want an upgraded house as a newbie (upgraded house meaning 8x8, because that is an upgrade over the wagon).

Disclaimer: I still think housing should be limited on an IP basis for reasons HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COST OF HOUSING.
I just can not understand the resistance to taxation on larger homes. If someone can cough up 10's of millions for a large house, they should absolutely be able to come up with 10-20k/week in order to maintain it. Anyone who has played here more than a few months is likely already farming top tier mobs and making 20k per farming run. The only reason I can see why people would oppose this is if they hold a large amount of IDOC properties they're hoping to flip.

If someone wants to take a break from UO and keep their house, it should be very easy for them to load up enough gold to maintain the house before they leave. They have to refresh it once a month regardless.
 

Elric

Apprentice
I just can not understand the resistance to taxation on larger homes.
I think this resistance you feel is that most of these ideas have no backing in data from past shards to provide examples of success. People write posts like "just tax players with large houses" and that will "solve all of the problems" when nobody knows if it will solve the problem or not. Some people "think" it will solve the problem. So reading between the lines some people are simply saying "just try it!" when the repercussions are not fully realized. Comments are made that if one can afford an X million gold home they can just amass enough gold to take a 6 month break. Then what is the point of having a tax if players can simply pay for it and keep their unused homes? If you put out a blanket rule of "1 house per ip" then players will just go to a friend's house, who doesn't play UO but has their own unique IP, and create an account there and build another house or transfer ownership to them. Whenever they need to refresh it, they go visit their friend and refresh the house over a cup of coffee.

The only demonstrated fix for the issue is OSI releasing Malas as a wide open and flat world for houses to be placed. This is why people come on here and say "add more land". The issue here, however, is that Outlands is trying to avoid the empty looking world when population dips like it did for OSI. Keep in mind that Outlands population will drop eventually. It will not likely be because a better shard is released, but players will simply move onto new hobbies. Its like when Mind Trip was all into the game and doing a podcast to eventually saying "screw it I am going to raise birds for meat" because he apparently found that more rewarding than UO. So I think Outlands will just let you folks complain a bit and wait for this dip in population where players don't even care enough to refresh a home. This has been happening more and more since launch so those that were patient and got a plot of land due to an IDOC are simply telling the rest of you to be patient like they were.

But, if this truly wants to be a Felucca shard, then have houses like the old days where you need keys for the doors and thieves could break into them and steal stuff. Thieves were just whining recently on these forums of having nothing thiefy to do.
 

Elric

Apprentice
My suggestion would be to expand the existing room rental system.
This is probably the quickest way to deal with the issue and thus not creating a Malas to allow more housing. The rental rooms are already on the map so using RadMapCopy you can just grab the whole area and copy it to another spot and double or triple the rooms available to rent. Rental rooms don't have the cosmetic repercussions of population dip because they are small rooms off the main map.