Murderers in groups.. getting a bit ridiculous..
- Thread starter bryan531
- Start date
Plenty of people complain about losing loadouts, including the OP of this post. It's a pretty common theme to complain about. Furthermore, I am not sure why you think my reply was directed at you specifically, but since we're on the topic, I can guarantee you that the people who take the time to make posts or replies on the forums about dying in UO wouldn't be making them if they didn't lose any items.
And now digging deeper, the following statemnts couldn't be further from the truth:
"While Outlands contains the most robust PvM of any UO game, this server definitely caters to the quake ffa FPS player types at the expense of every other type of player."
- Blatantly incorrect. If this server catered to the "quake ffa FPS player" you wouldn't have Owyn and Luthius scraminbling every week to find new ways to effectively keep the economy under control by creating new mass gold dumps primarily coming from PVM.
"PvM minded players are further made pvp incompatible while reds have far less penalties than any other version of UO.
In old UO you wore player crafted gear and that was enough to survive the world and pvp. Here, you have systems that force you to go full damage, that reds can take advantage of and spec for full defense, drastically widening the disparity even further when fighting in PvM environments."
- More revisionism and outright lies. "Old UO" is what exactly? The OSI days of the 90's that were riddled with glitches, bugs, and exploits out the ass that allowed you to literally walk into someones house and hide as a PK and kill them for their key once they logged in? What "Old UO are we talking about here" The one of the Siege Perilous era of spam mindblasting new to intermediate players to death as the de facto method of PK'ing?
You're not "forced" to go full damage here. That is a common misconception from those who value efficiency over anything else and then complain that their turbo efficient builds get stomped on every now and again.
"They don't just have the skill point advantage: they have aspect advantage, they have link advantage, they have gear advantage. None of those existed in original UO of the era this shard replicates."
- Refer to the above reply about how many horrendous original UO systems had in place and how they tripped fumbled and fell their way into creating Trammel as one giant bandage for all of their fuck up.
We all have fond memories of original UO or "old uo" but lets not make up lies and revisionism over it.
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"you sound like a pk who is casually wearing blue clothing lol" - @Spellbreaker
The last time I actively PK'd was probably in 2023. I just don't die to them, and think it's 100% a skill issue for those that do on a regular basis.
Blaise
Apprentice
Thread sucks, wipe.
I've been playing here for 7 years and building templates that are a middle ground between pvp and pvm, because I understand how balance works here. If you are CHOOSING imbalance by leaning 100% into PvM damage, you will die more, period. Choose your skills wisely, like a fuckin RPG with variety....and you can survive more.
The problem is no amount of discourse or guidance will sate the sadness of players who refuse to prepare for the dangers of Felucca. I hope players who don't like this style go find a shard they enjoy.
I've been playing here for 7 years and building templates that are a middle ground between pvp and pvm, because I understand how balance works here. If you are CHOOSING imbalance by leaning 100% into PvM damage, you will die more, period. Choose your skills wisely, like a fuckin RPG with variety....and you can survive more.
The problem is no amount of discourse or guidance will sate the sadness of players who refuse to prepare for the dangers of Felucca. I hope players who don't like this style go find a shard they enjoy.
Sorry, but we kinda have,
The mobs in the world are more tuned for min/max PvMer than anyone else as a way to try to reduce the world gold income. While this seem obvious (it would not be good if gold dropped easier than we have already), it brought consequences, like having to, at least, be close to min/max templates to not end up with a weak character.
This tuning by itself would be fine, if we didn't have so many synergies.
The amount of synergies we have can easily cost your entire character resources (skill, aspect, links, equipment, ...).
When the mobs are tuned for min/max PvMers in this synergy scenario, if you deviate from dedicate most/all your character to use the best of the synergies, you end up with a weak character in some way. For my first years of Outlands all my charcaters had Tracking as a way to avoid PKs and it is noticeable how stronger the character can get when you dont spend just 80/100 skill point to avoid being looted.
It is curious to say, but from this standpoint, having less synergies would bring more build variations into the table.
You could argue it is fine to play with a half cooked character, but I really don't think there are many player getting satisfaction from this in the long run; the extreme in this way would be argue "why not stick to the shelter dungeon then, you are killing stuff, aren't you?"
Edt
That is a nice picture of "pvp has consequences, but, gladly, I can swap characters at will and ignore them"
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Every mob in every MMO in the world is more tuned for more efficient builds, but that still doesn't mean you are forced to play a glass cannon PVM'er in this game. The various templates that create the "class" archetypes in Outlands tend to take their respective defensive skills less and less as the game continues its natural progression (and the battle against power creep continues for Luthius),Sorry, but we kinda have,
The mobs in the world are more tuned for min/max PvMer than anyone else as a way to try to reduce the world gold income. While this seem obvious (it would not be good if gold dropped easier than we have already), it brought consequences, like having to, at least, be close to min/max templates to not end up with a weak character.
This tuning by itself would be fine, if we didn't have so many synergies.
The amount of synergies we have can easily cost your entire character resources (skill, aspect, links, equipment, ...).
When the mobs are tuned for min/max PvMers in this synergy scenario, if you deviate from dedicate most/all your character to use the best of the synergies, you end up with a weak character in some way. For my first years of Outlands all my charcaters had Tracking as a way to avoid PKs and it is noticeable how stronger the character can get when you dont spend just 80/100 skill point to avoid being looted.
It is curious to say, but from this standpoint, having less synergies would bring more build variations into the table.
You could argue it is fine to play with a half cooked character, but I really don't think there are many player getting satisfaction from this in the long run; the extreme in this way would be argue "why not stick to the shelter dungeon then, you are killing stuff, aren't you?"
Edt
That is a nice picture of "pvp has consequences, but, gladly, I can swap characters at will and ignore them"
but that still doesn't mean you are forced into anything; what it means is you'd rather max out your GPH instead of your potential max GPH taking a hit. You could be making 150k'ish with a more balanced build, but you'd rather opt for 180k, right? Well, so would I, but I don't come to the forums and Discord to make posts about dying, either. I think for the vast majority of people playing this game they either understand the tradeoff and accept it, or they make builds that are capable of surviving better or even fighting back ie: Arcane mage.
About what you said about Tracking - you basically described UO progression in a nutshell. You took a supplemental skill when you first started out, and once you wanted to push the boundaries, you swapped it out. That's not a bad thing; you had a choice and you took. Just remember what game you're playing, something that has been balanced around 720 skill points since forever. If your issue is with that than your issue goes beyond Outlands.
One of the biggest issues is that a PvM character has to gimp themselves to be effective in PvP.
A PvP player can go full PvP build and be just as good at surviving, maybe even better, than if they had a PvM build. They can't do any damage in PvM, but thats not what they are there for. So they can basically build a glass cannon template, but that glass is tempered and won't shatter.
I think the solution is getting rid of Eval and Tactics, and replace them with PvP and PvM skills. Call PvP Psychology and PvM Bestiary. The skills impact your damage dealt and your damage resistance against either players or monsters.
It'll require PKs to invest in some PvM skill to avoid getting melted by mobs, and grinders will have to invest in some PvP to avoid being easy prey to PKs.
Many PvM players are already doing this to an extent by having Magic Resist on builds. But there really isn't any skill most PKs take that helps solely against mobs. Parry may be the biggest option, but it also helps out A LOT when fighting a dexxer.
A PvP player can go full PvP build and be just as good at surviving, maybe even better, than if they had a PvM build. They can't do any damage in PvM, but thats not what they are there for. So they can basically build a glass cannon template, but that glass is tempered and won't shatter.
I think the solution is getting rid of Eval and Tactics, and replace them with PvP and PvM skills. Call PvP Psychology and PvM Bestiary. The skills impact your damage dealt and your damage resistance against either players or monsters.
It'll require PKs to invest in some PvM skill to avoid getting melted by mobs, and grinders will have to invest in some PvP to avoid being easy prey to PKs.
Many PvM players are already doing this to an extent by having Magic Resist on builds. But there really isn't any skill most PKs take that helps solely against mobs. Parry may be the biggest option, but it also helps out A LOT when fighting a dexxer.
basicchannel
Neophyte
git gud