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Readjust End Game Taming

D

Duke

Novice
I’m doing this on mobile so forgive me if it looks funky.

As most of us tamers find the end game pets typically end up with a seering/worm combo or phoenix/1 slot tank.
One variant affords the convenience of dropping vet and having an extra 150 stones while the other pushes out the top DPS.

The thought you’re left after using both of these isn’t “wow these are so op” but rather “why would I use anything else”. Most pet combinations are pretty lack luster in comparison. Before anyone rushes to type any min-max Esque pets with “But 5 husk crabs!” I get it but you can’t mindlessly kill aoe mobs while you can just “all kill” with the above variants.

To preface: This isn’t a suggestion to buff tamers dps in any way. They are a bit over hyped as the “top gold per hour farmer” (proof being the #1 seasonal gold earner is a peacer) but they are certainly a top build. This is only a suggestion to breath life into other pet combinations instead of seeing only two pet variations at 120.

1st example: Colossal Black Widow (4 slot)
Could potentially be a top tier pet with its deadly poison but after testing with a snowdrift... why wouldn’t I just use a bullvore and worm? The CBW isn’t very tanky and honestly the dps isn’t incredible with it being a 4 slot pet.
-A possible fix: Reduce it’s slot to 3, while simultaneously reducing the Giant black widow to 2. I’ve never seen a tamed GBW so I think getting them possible paired with a cave gorger could be good. A 3 slot CBW might need to be nerfed in dmg but it would be worth it just to get it paired with a decent 2 slot pet. Also buffing it’s damage/tankyness and upgrading it to a 5 slot pet could be an option.​
2nd example: Otyugh (4 slot)
I really wanted to like this pet and use it but it is just so just very lackluster unless it is attacking you at a shrine. It’s damage is only ok but is an aoe so I think that it’s only fair to be only Greater poison. However, it is a 4 slot pet so really you can pair it with a tank and just heal everything while waiting for the poison to kill.
-A possible fix: since debuffs really stop with the drowned dragon at 110, maybe give this guy a thematic debuff. I think giving him a “armor melting acid” debuff would really help put it into a meta setting with dexxer/archer tamers. I don’t think reducing pet slots is a good idea, I really like the idea that it’s a giant monster melting everything around it.​
3rd example: Colossal trapdoor spider:
I believe stealthing pets are doomed to be balancing issues but pairing stealth with poison is asking for a pvp balancing complaint. When you pair stealth and poison you get this pet, which really doesn’t do anything well. I believe the intent was to have it be a pvp stealth pet so honestly I think for it to be viable anywhere it would need to be changed to bleed or just forgotten about (which it mostly is).

4th example: Cavernam Pets in general (except lemura). I personally haven’t tested the Frigid hornbeast(yes this is a 120 pet) too much. With their traits you can imagine them as pumped up bloodapes without bleed but weirdly not a good amount of dps? And they can really only be paired with a tank or maybe a blood hunter? It’s awkward because they can either be slotted with a 3 slot or another frigid/tank.
Barbed Prowler, a very cool looking pet with him a cool ability and honestly not terrible dps but unless you want to be some taming hipster then you might as well pick up a meta pet.
White wyrm is a nice throwback but unless you’re using it for a boss for a debuff then there’s really no other use for it.
CAVE GORGER. The one 110 pet I’ll talk about but a really cool concept but is unfortunately a 3 slot pet. This really needs to be a 2 slot pet, do whatever you have to but it was really disappointing to find only a swamp drake archer combo decent with it.
Suggestions: I honestly am not super familiar with these pets, I took a break shortly after they came out. If anyone has any suggestions then feel free !
5th example: Shadow Minion
Weird option but I guess I can see where they were going with this. Two major issues are that it’s a melee pet and it is located in the highest traffic area in the entire shard.
Suggestion: upgrade the damage/tankyness and make this a 2 slot pet so it can be paired with a 3 slot pet (eld drag?) and so you only have to tame one.​
6th example: Blightmare
I’m ready to just settle with the fact that this and the Corsair were made to only ride despite having good DoT effects. If that’s the intention then that’s fine, but In terms of pvm they lack. I think they’re fine as a 2 slot pet but I think their dps just need to be straight up buffed if they’re gonna be in contention with anything.

In conclusion: Obviously I only focused on the 120 pets, this isn’t because I believe they should out dps anything else but because it’s supposed to be end game taming. I believe that investing 40 points beyond GM should allow you to more conveniences that only a few 120 pets allow currently

I’ve been 120 since November of last year and we’re coming on a year since Outlands launches with little recognition to the awkwardness of the pets I’ve mentioned above. If anyone wants to chime in feel free but I feel this is a good introduction to the topic
 
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I'm not a tamer, have no horse in the race - and I haven't read through every combination your suggesting, but I support this on premise alone - I hate seeing only 1 or 2 combinations always used, and finding a way to provide variety should be a priority in my eyes.

As a summoner, and only using earth elementals - because lets be honest, they far surpass the other summons, I fully support this cause and hope it comes to summoners at some point to, because i'd like to see a variety of summons, and playstyles/builds even within a category like tamers or summoners. I also appreciate that this isn't a boost DPS, but more a boost viability of other combinations.
 
Thanks for this post! It gave me a good insight into the world of end-game tamers.

I've always thought it odd that the pet balance isn't addressed. In other games balance is changed constantly to keep things fresh, but do most UO players enjoy change?
 
Three months ago I performed and submitted to staff a creature by creature analysis for every tamable which requires more than 40 skill to tame as well as the summons with specific change recommendations documented to make underutilized pets more competitive with the popular ones (e.g. to make other summoned elemental choices more competitive with earth elemental).

I received no feedback on it really so I dunno what if any of it is going anywhere.
 
Yeah, I think if the game has an 'Extensive Bestiary and Training System', but then at endgame all tamers use the same 4 pets—what's the point?

I suppose the devs might be thinking: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'? This is something they work on in their spare time (which I'm incredibly grateful for), perhaps they're more focused on pushing out new content instead of tweaking what's already there and working.
 
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I love this idea! Give 120 pets an edge over lesser tameables and make these 4 slots worth 4 slots, tbh even if you dropped them to 3 slots it would work but I’d rather you make the 4 slots better. Make them have higher armor and or more dps and maybe even a unique special ability. The 4 slot spiders don’t have any ability that the other spiders don’t add debuff ability to them etc
 
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Levity said:
Yeah, I think if the game has an 'Extensive Bestiary and Training System', but then at endgame all tamers use the same 4 pets—what's the point?

I suppose the devs might be thinking: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'? This is something they work on in their spare time (which I'm incredibly grateful for), perhaps they're more focused on pushing out new content instead of tweaking what's already there and working.
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I think there is a “other stuff need more attention than this” mindset when it comes to this topic. Hopefully by making an organized post with both insights and suggestions on how to lessen the burden on them to figure it out from scratch we can help drive into the experience we want. Sylvara has gone above and beyond to do that already months ago so I guess it’s just a matter of waiting at this point haha
 
Blastro said:
I love this idea! Give 120 pets an edge over lesser tameables and make these 4 slots worth 4 slots, tbh even if you dropped them to 3 slots it would work but I’d rather you make the 4 slots better. Make them have higher armor and or more dps and maybe even a unique special ability. The 4 slot spiders don’t have any ability that the other spiders don’t add debuff ability to them etc
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I’m gonna agree with the portion about the spiders only because they don’t do anything particularly well besides having DP. Most high level mobs have poison resist so that cuts down on dps so they’re a bit niche. If they stay 4 slots then they need to be tankier so a 1 slot dps pet can make up for the lack of damage.
I disagree with the mindset that just because it’s 120 it should strictly have a dps edge over lesser pets. I think with investing 40 points there should be a nice compensation, i.e. bloodworms 2 slot self healing decent dps, bullvore high single target dps 150 stone perk, Phoenix being the glass cannon dps artillery machine, lemura being the premiere tank. In other words maybe with investing those extra 40 points you can pick pets that can allow you to drop vet completely or not Invest so many skills into dps so you can pick up resists. Obviously there’s more variety to the possibilities but I would like more options than the “safe reliable option” and the “high dps option” again I’m typing on mobile on the toilet so this might be formatted like shit
 
Duke said:
What’s underwhelming about the blood drag?
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Nothing. Nullifying your whole argument. You get to choose between so many different options. Compared to regular UO or other shards where there has only ever been 1 or 2 meta options at most.

Let’s see an example, I have a blood worm, I like my bloodworm it’s badass, I don’t need to heal it and I’m a fan of that. So let me choose do I want the blood dragon Or the searing bullvore to go on top. Do I want more stones and this sweet looking bull creature or maybe I like the bleed effects. Maybe I want to rock two blood worms and toss in a snowdrift or something.

Tons of options for a 120 animal tamer. It sounds to me like you’ve just spent too much time on the shard. 120 tamer since November ? I think you have too high of expectations and maybe need to take a little break.
 
Doobish said:
Nothing. Nullifying your whole argument. You get to choose between so many different options. Compared to regular UO or other shards where there has only ever been 1 or 2 meta options at most.

Let’s see an example, I have a blood worm, I like my bloodworm it’s badass, I don’t need to heal it and I’m a fan of that. So let me choose do I want the blood dragon Or the searing bullvore to go on top. Do I want more stones and this sweet looking bull creature or maybe I like the bleed effects. Maybe I want to rock two blood worms and toss in a snowdrift or something.

Tons of options for a 120 animal tamer. It sounds to me like you’ve just spent too much time on the shard. 120 tamer since November ? I think you have too high of expectations and maybe need to take a little break.
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I think maybe you’re being a little too hostile towards a suggestion post in the suggestion portion of the forum.

I’m gonna go ahead and also make another suggestion within this suggestion post that you buy a thesaurus to exchange a few of those 5th-grade-reading-level phrases you used in there.
 
ouch, burn! I didn't realize I was being judged on my writing here :p

but this is an online forum, nobody is trying to publish a manuscript here, 5th grade reading level is perfect. To quote the good Einstein, if you cant explain something simply, then you don't know it well enough. No need to attack someone even if they did write at a 5th grade level.

Anywho, I apologize if I shat on your idea, I didn't mean to come off as hostile, but that just sounds insane - there is a boatload of pet options here. You take this free game waaaay too seriously. Your "suggestion" is just the ramblings of a madman with way too much time on their hands. You clearly have some sort of agenda because you didnt even mention the blood dragon. Furthermore, you've presented zero facts, zero figures, no data, nothing to back up anything of what you're saying and then what is your biased conclusion? that they should revamp the 120 pets? Lunacy
 
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Ok dude whatever you say, I hope your day gets a little more exciting than trolling a suggestion post on a free shards forum
 
hi my names is hat i just wanted to introduce myself to everyone by ressurrecting the hostility passion stemming from one's time and investment in a character they enjoy playing on this server which has nearly single-handedly brought UO back from the brink of death in this thread.

Fixed.
 
I now understand why being editor-in-chief is such a powerful position.

I read your signature. I do not like the idea of a global auction house or a global vendor search. It takes away from the games immersion such as roaming around as a newb looking at player vendors wares. Wishing one day for a house on a main road for your own merchant shop.

Instead you would double click a Gump pops up w pages upon pages of variously priced wares some duplicit 99999 items to accidently rob someone will or course exist and another thing I feel that would occur where everyone would price to out price slash each other or even price fixing. I just don't like these in games in general because it takes away from player interaction.
 
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hat said:
I now understand why being editor-in-chief is such a powerful position.

I read your signature. I do not like the idea of a global auction house or a global vendor search. It takes away from the games immersion such as roaming around as a newb looking at player vendors wares. Wishing one day for a house on a main road for your own merchant shop.

Instead you would double click a Gump pops up w pages upon pages of variously priced wares some duplicit 99999 items to accidently rob someone will or course exist and another thing I feel that would occur where everyone would price to out price slash each other or even price fixing. I just don't like these in games in general because it takes away from player interaction.
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Fair enough.

I just hate searching vendors for items I want. I literally cry when I can't find an item in discord and have to reluctantly go open 500 fkn bags - I feel this is a huge waste of time.
 
hat said:
I read your signature. I do not like the idea of a global auction house or a global vendor search. It takes away from the games immersion such as roaming around as a newb looking at player vendors wares. Wishing one day for a house on a main road for your own merchant shop.

Instead you would double click a Gump pops up w pages upon pages of variously priced wares some duplicit 99999 items to accidently rob someone will or course exist and another thing I feel that would occur where everyone would price to out price slash each other or even price fixing. I just don't like these in games in general because it takes away from player interaction.
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(Off-topic, but...)

Despite there having many craftables and valuables in the server, they can practically all be sold in vendors present in a few (3) areas (Anchor's Rest, North & South Prevalia). Everywhere else can be ignored.

That being the case, when searching for stuff, one's practically doing a (long) search though an (inefficient) list. Not too different from a "vendor search" or an "auction house".

How immersive, when houses house many rented vendors from many players. They're practically markets.

If you wanna be efficient, you've to depend on an unsafe platform such as Discord.


I suggested what I meant as a territorial vendor search--would be balanced. It'd be accessible in town. The player would still have to travel to the vendor.
 
Hmmm, you know what I would actually settle on a house wide search... this would be ok in my book. Double click on the sign if a vendor house and ability to search wares. This would be alright actually. As I think about this further I actually really like this idea. Having access to all the wares via a searchable gump for each vendor house.
 
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Rehls said:
I suggested what I meant as a territorial vendor search--would be balanced. It'd be accessible in town. The player would still have to travel to the vendor.
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That is a way cool idea. Love it. Each town has their own regions they cover. I bet that shop would be jam packed with people - like a bustling trade post. This is a really cool idea. I'll probably add this to my signature.
 
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