Factions

[Sir Papeth]

Outlands is a growing game but for the PvP community one thing is missing; fluid and spontaneous overworld PvP outside of scheduled PvP events. While PvP events are fun and draw in action they are scheduled and repetitive. They usually favor the bigger groups and are not so kind to smaller groups. Factions are a unique part of the game and add “next level” PvP which can create a whole bunch of new PvP opportunities for all players to enjoy. I know staff is open to the concept but are in need of ideas.

So this post is an attempt to introduce an outline bone version of what factions could look like. Criticism is welcomed but make it meaningful. I am sure most people who enjoy PvP would like to see factions become a reality. If we all brainstorm together maybe we can make it possible in the near future. Most of the ideas and concepts here are bits and pieces taken from already established events and systems so hopefully the coding will not be that hard. Then again I do not know codes at all so if what I am saying is impossible feel free to add that input as well. Without any further ado here is the outline:

FACTIONS​

At the start there will be 3 Factions:

• Prevalia​
• Cambria​
• Andaria​

These towns are chosen for their location and since they have a castle. The castle will act as a faction base with a main faction stone inside to access options, rankings, and status. Another stone will be placed outside of the castle. The second stone outside will only be used for joining. Once one joins a faction the player can now travel inside all faction zones. Faction Zones are just faction bases. Non-faction players cannot travel inside faction zones.

Like earlier stated faction zones are just the faction castle bases located in town. A faction member belonging to that town can freely travel inside and outside of the castle via the gate. An opposing faction member cannot freely travel inside the castle and must break down the gate similar to castle sieges. Once a gate is broken down it remains broken for 2 hours and opposing members can travel in and out. After the 2 hour period is up the gate is rebuilt and cannot be destroyed again for 4 hours.

CAPTURING TOWNS​

Four towns will be able to be captured:

• Horse Shoe Bay​
• Terran​
• Outpost​
• Corpse Creek​

A town will open up and become "capturable" and will remain in this state for a 24 hour period. When a town is able to be captured, beacons will pop up somewhere in the town/surrounding region. A player will be able to contribute to a faction score by going into town and sitting on the beacons. There will be several beacons with cooldowns forcing the players to rotate around town/region. Once they enter the area and sit on a beacon for points a 45 minute timer will start and they will only have 45 minutes to cap points. Getting kills in contested towns/regions will contribute to faction scores as well. After the 45 minute timer expires the player cannot cap points for another 4 hours in that town. They can however stay and continue to fight and kill other faction members to continue scoring points. The capturing phase will last for 24 hours. Once a town is captured it will remain captured for 4 days by that faction and then enter a new 24 hour period of being able to be taken.

Here is a map of what contested zones and beacons may look like:

Spoiler: Capturable Zone

Red border = zone boundary. Gold star = beacon locations
Notice how some beacons are outside of town. This is to promote movement and field PvP on a large scale and not just fighting in a town. These 4 towns will rotate on a schedule and only 1 town will be able to be captured in a day. An issue with this is since beacons are outside on the overworld it may interfere with housing and/or give some players benefits as they might own houses in the area. To be honest though I am sure this can be worked around and advantages/disadvantages are all a part of war.

FACTION CAPITALS​

The Faction Capitals are:

• Prevalia​
• Cambria​
• Andaria​

Faction Capitals cannot be captured. Instead opposing factions have the option to "raid" another factions capital. In faction capitals, guards and faction soldiers will spawn in designated areas. These are AI mobs that will be moderately strong, aggro on opposing faction members, and will be hard for conventional PvP builds to kill. Killing these mobs will give a small amount of points to whoever kills them. Lastly a “main” mob (Captain, General something like that) can spawn inside the castle and if killed will grant a larger amount of points. These mobs can spawn on an hourly basis which gives incentive to “raid” opposing faction capitals for points and also defend faction capitals.

POINTS​

As earlier stated killing faction mobs will grant a low level of points. The main way for faction individuals to get points is by fighting, capturing towns, and killing opposing faction members. The higher the opposing member is, the more points you get. The more you contribute to capturing a town the more points you get. There will be a ranking and title system for faction players to keep track of points. This is E-peen paradise. Players can run around town titled Sheriff of Prevalia swinging their dicks at noobs.

REWARDS​

In captured towns there will be faction vendors for players to access.

Faction Blacksmith: 500k to bless a weapon for 7 days.
Faction Tailor: 100k to bless a piece of armor for 7 days.
Faction Bowman: 500k to bless a bow for 7 days and/or quiver.
(This idea can completely be scratched, it was just to add more meaning to capturing a town and also add another gold sink.)

Truth be told I am not sure on what rewards can be implemented. I know on other servers there was silver, more faction vendors with lower prices, and some custom faction items/mounts. Yet I am not sure on how to incorporate all that into Outlands. Hopefully with this outline some others can come up with ideas on how rewards can be implemented into factions. Maybe there isn't a need for rewards and the reward can be slapping people with your nut sack and high faction title. Either way please consider and think of what you can add to the discussion. Take care all.

 

[AreYouKidden]

My first reaction is to write to you - and say we had a faction system at the start of the server, no one participated in it - so a change was made to make faction fighting into guild fighting - people weren't into wandering faction style PvP - they all preferred the dinner bell style we have now, scheduled events. To be honest though - the original implementation was all risk, no reward - you got nothing for being in factions - and no one seemed to care about them, so they rebuilt it in a new image, that at first was quite popular - but almost all events but town struggles died off. Lots of factors involved - I often feel it has to do with needing a team on to commit in any of them.

Other things have been tried, and tested over time - PvP'rs always seem to fight against any implementation of mobs in their battlegrounds - and want it to be a purely competitive PvP only arena - yet such arenas like stygian rifts, die off quite quickly because we don't have a huge population of PvP only people. We had Castle Sieges that originally involved fighting for the castles and holding htem with mobs involved, they became just a PvP playground... Stygian Rifts were heavier with mobs in original testing, and it was mostly cut out, for less PvM. Dungeon Flashpoints had monster spawns removed around the fight area.

I personally love your suggestion and idea - I'd love to have actual factions, that we all join together in - and love that i'd be the 3 main towns, and would love for it to be meaningful changes for conquering different areas. I've recommended such systems in the past - for me, I want what I do to have an effect on the world as a whole, it's the whole RP angle behind it.

A few things to consider

• in the past factions if you put anything that benefits a player like different faction specific vendors (reagent vendors), everyone will sign up for the faction that's winning, and reap the rewards, making it impossible to balance. Maybe someone would swap sides to upset the power at some point, but then everyone just flocks to the other faction. Need to have long timers for switching sides, make it meaningful - I'd even consider resetting it every season only - your stuck with the faction you choose - however then you might get to a point where no one does factions when it gets to the point you can't win. Maybe your personal leaderboards are reset if you switch factions in the middle of a season - so your better off trying to fight it out on the faction you choose.
• I personally am a big fan however of regular items being blessed, and anything beyond gm regular materials not being blessed, however I'm not sure how that actually fits for this sort of fighting. I hear the word blessed and I shut down.
• I think titles / epeen is something worth fighting over - i also think people are looking for more than that - progressive guild rewards / society rewards systems are great - but you always run the risk of something determined by win/loss, kills/deaths especially in open world being manipulated. The answer to that really is PvP rewards that are either account bound, or character bound - and aesthetic only - no links and such - you can make unique outfits, mounts, everything we can get in societies for the factions - but bind them so the player can't sell them - let them collect as many as they want then.

 

[Laughing Skull]

This is somewhat of a tangent off of your post, so I hope it's somehow helpful....

Twenty years ago all I did was PvP. Now, after being here a little over a year and a half, I still have yet to engage in PvP content. This is primarily for two reasons:

1. I'm chasing this godforsaken carrot.... I absolutely love the character progression here. But this is a two edged sword for me because I feel if I'm not out bashing mobs and raking in that XP, I'm not progressing. My UO time is very limited now, so I try to be efficient with my time (oh yea, and have fun too).
2. There are no brackets or rating type systems here. I want to PvP, but outside organized situations with guilds and friends, where can I get some experience with equally skilled foes (I.E. Other Noobs). I realize this is somewhat self defeating.... if I never get out there, I won't learn. But, I just don't have the drive to climb that mountain at this time.

I'd imagine I'm not the only one choosing not to participate in PvP and instead progress in PvM. From what I hear, the PvM population is significantly larger than the PvP population here. What if there was some PvM bonus to obtaining and holding a PvP rank (thinking old school faction ranks here, Servant, Purveyor of Darkness, etc...).

Now I don't want to go the damage route because I want to stay away from power creep. But I'm sure someone can think of some good ideas (here are a couple off the top of my head):

Faction Backpack Straps - increase carry capacity by 2%/4%/6%/8%/10% (according to rank)
Faction Reagent Guide - chance to not consume reagent by 2%/4%/6%/8%/10%
Faction Alchemy Guide - chance to not consume potion by 2%/4%/6%/8%/10%
Faction Coin Purse - reduce gold weight by 3%/6%/9%/12%/15%
Faction Orange Petal - chance to not consume Cure Potion by 60%/65%/70%/75%/80%
Faction Moongate Guide - able to use Dungeon Gates/Moongates at an increased range 1 tile/2 tile/3 tile/ 4 tile/5 tile range

So you get the idea, non-power creep, useful bonuses to holding a faction rank (or whatever rank)

Although, a bless deed would be pretty awsome, it would finally give a use to those coveted spellbooks/weapons everyone is scared to take out. Make the bless useable for 100k/125k/150k/175k/200k Chain XP or something like that, reset weekly. But I'm not sure about this, I typically want to avoid power creep.

 

[Pen]

UO Is not instant based PVP.. I said it.. give us overworld factions.. or ppl too scared to lose 10 regs

 

[AreYouKidden]

UO Is not instant based PVP.. I said it.. give us overworld factions.. or ppl too scared to lose 10 regs

If you compare the number of people PvP'n here, compared to the number of people PvM'n - I think you'll find UO isn't PvP based at all anymore Sometimes you have to evolve to grow.. I'm not suggesting instance based PvP - more saying - don't be afraid to try some new things to grow the PvP community here - because right now it's minimal at best..

 

[Laughing Skull]

UO Is not instant based PVP.. I said it.. give us overworld factions.. or ppl too scared to lose 10 regs

I thoroughly enjoy UO PvP. Thinking back with all the games I have ever PvP'd in, UO is easily top 3. However, I just find the PvM character progression so interesting here, I can't pull away from it to learn/participate in PvP.

I am merely trying to give you my perspective, from someone who DOES enjoy the cutthroat PvP UO offers, as to why I haven't participated yet. Take it or leave it. For the time being... the two reason I listed in my post above are why I'm not participating at this time:

1. If I am PvPing, I'm not progressing my PvM character - I'm stuck here, the PvM is so unique and interesting I am just choosing to PvM ATM
2. There is no bracketing or division of skill where I can fight equally skilled foes. I know this has never has been in UO and you just got to kind of jump in, but I'm not ready to climb that hill yet. (See #1)

 

[Pen]

If you compare the number of people PvP'n here, compared to the number of people PvM'n - I think you'll find UO isn't PvP based at all anymore Sometimes you have to evolve to grow.. I'm not suggesting instance based PvP - more saying - don't be afraid to try some new things to grow the PvP community here - because right now it's minimal at best..

ya why I just log in to refresh just my houses..

 

[Laughing Skull]

ya why I just log in to refresh just my houses..

It's not so much about who's right or wrong, man. I'm trying to think of what can be done to motive me, a PvM guy, to PvP.

If you just say UO is never instance based and close the book, then don't expect any changes and keep logging in every 30 days to refresh. (Not saying we need instance based PvP) But if you want PvP newcomers (I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this way), what ideas do you have?

Otherwise, Ima keep having a good ol' time over here in dungeons and keep running from you PvP guys. I do enjoy the cat and mouse element there. And, I have no problem playing the mouse role with my 1,000+ mouse buddies.

 

[Pen]

uhh, chaos, order.. worked fine.. But no guild would join them..
I mean PVP is all but dead..
thieves are doodoo...
Rifts are such a huge success Lol...

So just enjoy wacking mobs while they stand there.. while ur playing an instrument with no hands..

 

[AreYouKidden]

I hunt PK's almost nightly - so no shortage of PvP for those looking for it - it's not really my ideal PvP though - I'd love some world based faction stuff, was gutted when factions were removed, yet no one was doing them because there was no incentive given, just risk for people - so it wasn't even a fair trial for factions here - I'd love a reason to be wearing faction flags all the time - but hte fact that you can opt in/out of PvP systems as a guild even, just really means that no one is going to OPT in unless the scenario is optimal for them. That's a mistake in my eyes - you should either be in all the time, or not - and get benefits for being in.. with long timers for opting back out, like 7 days

But of course, you'd need a complete factions overhaul at this point, at which the original post is a step in the right direction in my eyes.

 

[Pen]

I hunt PK's almost nightly - so no shortage of PvP for those looking for it - it's not really my ideal PvP though - I'd love some world based faction stuff, was gutted when factions were removed, yet no one was doing them because there was no incentive given, just risk for people - so it wasn't even a fair trial for factions here - I'd love a reason to be wearing faction flags all the time - but hte fact that you can opt in/out of PvP systems as a guild even, just really means that no one is going to OPT in unless the scenario is optimal for them. That's a mistake in my eyes - you should either be in all the time, or not - and get benefits for being in.. with long timers for opting back out, like 7 days

But of course, you'd need a complete factions overhaul at this point, at which the original post is a step in the right direction in my eyes.

the fact that every lil thing on this server has to have a timer or a reward is very meh.. I never expected rewards for pvp or being scared of losing 20k worth of gear.. what has happened to uo..

 

[Laughing Skull]

the fact that every lil thing on this server has to have a timer or a reward is very meh.. I never expected rewards for pvp or being scared of losing 20k worth of gear.. what has happened to uo..

There is always a small crowd that will engage in PvP no matter what.

This server really hit the nail on the head in regards to PvM and character progression. A lot of folks are into it. I think to advance the PvP scene here something needs to be done to peel a portion of those players away from PvM. It's not so much about the risk of losing gear or money, it's the opportunity cost.

So, yes, unfortunately there has to be a benefit for me spend the time to learn and engage in PvP. Otherwise, I'm going to keep on keepin' on in dungeons. Maybe I'll look into PvP later, who knows.

 

[Pen]

There is always a small crowd that will engage in PvP no matter what.

This server really hit the nail on the head in regards to PvM and character progression. A lot of folks are into it. I think to advance the PvP scene here something needs to be done to peel a portion of those players away from PvM. It's not so much about the risk of losing gear or money, it's the opportunity cost.

So, yes, unfortunately there has to be a benefit for me spend the time to learn and engage in PvP. Otherwise, I'm going to keep on keepin' on in dungeons. Maybe I'll look into PvP later, who knows.

So you basically only play games to complete achievements. understandable.. that is probably 95% of the shard..

 

[Laughing Skull]

So you basically only play games to complete achievements. understandable.. that is probably 95% of the shard..

No, definitely not for the acheivements.

However, your question intrigues me and I'm doing a bit of soul searching as to why I play..... And I think I summed it up to 2 items. Funny enough, I think it's not far from the reason you PvP.

1) Character Competition - I want to PvM better than the next guy. I like to tinker with different skills, skill levels, armors, to see what I can do to squeeze out a few more DPS. This comes with an entire laundry list of items I need to complete (Ex: Aspect Suit, Codex, Tome, Mastery Chain). Not so much to bully my way through dungeons, but so I can deal with all the crap that usually comes with a crowded dungeon (Griefers, Crazy situation where somebody pulled too much, helping a friend, Kill Stealing, etc...). Something about me being in control of my own destiny in there. It's a different type of competition than PvP, but it still has that human element making each dungeon run slightly different than the next.

2) Amassing wealth - Completing Item 1 will make this so much easier. Of course I want a cool house and a cool mount, but it's more along the lines that I don't want to be limited by gold in whatever endeavor I choose to pursue.

Why do you PvP?

 

[moiller]

opinion/suggestions i don’t like the idea of faction based rewards, like cheaper vendors and blah, it creates unbalanced play, but individual rewards based on points/rank seem nice. less resource expense, more bag space, gold for a kill maybe ? 1k for each kill earned? custom items based on points like maybe hue/titles for achieving certain points and crappier basic hues/titles for lower points, special clothing/mounts rideable beetle? dragon? you get the idea just things of this nature where it doesn’t tip the balance of numbers but more rewards the individual for performing well but also loses rewards for playing bad so one day you could be 100 point player riding the coolest mounts and wearing the coolest hue but the next you die a bunch and aren’t allowed to wear that item or mount, and to reward players for being solo or run smaller groups, the more players in a party the less points earned scaled on a percentage based so a player kills another player 1v1 they earn one point, but 10 players kill one player they each earn .10th a point also i believe there should be a mechanism in play to prevent point abuse, so if a player dies, that player will have to res and go back to thier faction stone and “repledge” to fight again and be eligible to die and lose more points, if there was a gold reward make the funds come out of their account so when you die it cost you money not just free gold generated, also only allow one char from your ip allowed in one faction, cant kill one of you players from another faction over and over to gain status. and no faction jumping if you join a faction you are stuck there for the season or must pay a hefty fine to quit? or maybe a quit faction option but then you can’t rejoin for a season or pay a hefty fine to rejoin? i personally love the idea of factions. making the entire map a place for random fights.

 

[Sir Papeth]

It seems that most of the feedback revolved around the rewards. What about the design of events and such?

I know factions may have been added in the past, (personally I wasn't here so I have no idea how it went) but from what I have heard there was just no reason to go and fight. Pretty much how the global war is today. Yeah people are orange, but that's about it.

As with dinner bell PvP the idea behind most of the presented events was to mix both dinner bell and fluid style pvp. For example, when a town can be captured you then know that for the next 24 hours your chances of finding a fight there will be extremely high. Why? Because people are drawn to go and cap points there.

As for adding mobs, it's more so to have the mobs be killed, instead of have mobs interrupt or be a huge part of fighting.
In rifts the mob is free score of 100 points, worth as much as a player kill.
In FP mobs are everywhere and they aggro/interrupt.

For factions the mobs in capital towns would be there to provide a reason to visit opposing capital towns. So, you are choosing to go and fight around/with mobs, instead of being forced to like in rifts and fps. Remember, only the capital towns would have guards. So, you go there, kill a few guards, break the castle door, kill the captain, and leave with a few extra points. It also gives the other side the opportunity to defend their base and the pride that goes behind winning/loosing. Could even keep track of which capital has lost the most captains as a way to inspire more e-peen flexing.