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Housing Discussion

Elric

Adept
I think this housing problem is getting super out of control.
I stumbled across Outlands after my puppy ran away. I was crushed and felt I had nowhere to turn, but Outlands brought joy back into my life. I asked my cousin to join and he promptly made an account. We travelled the land in search of fame and fortune, while standing in the shadows of the most beautiful houses in the world. I virtually put an arm around my cousin's character and said, "some day Cletus, we will have a home as grand as this". We finally saved enough gold to get a nice big home, but there was nowhere to place it. Cletus wept as I screamed to the gods of how we newcomers are robbed of the same experiences that those who came before us bask in with their wealth and tracts of land. We felt defeated for sure. Add more land or we'll quit.
 
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Doran

Neophyte
I remember you. Least your name. I have played straight from about 2000-2001. Every shard I played (except OSI Siege Perilous) seemed to have issues with housing. Either people wanted bigger or better homes (castles, keeps or near gates/cities) or they just wanted to place a spot. Everytime I hear about more housing I think of Malas and how spread out it seemed to make the population.
i also played on Drachenfels and Europe back on t2a/Renaissance.

yes plots for bigger houses were very expensive , BUT a small tower or small buildings in general were pretty cheap and if you had the time you could be able to place one on your own after some hours. I remember a small tower was sold for 250k , way more expensive then the deed itself but still reasonable.
Logs were at around 2 millions , there it started to get expensive.

on outlands even a very small house costs SO MUCH gold , a new player cant farm in a reasonable time.
 
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Doran

Neophyte
My account is 15 days old, I've managed to scrounge together enough money for a caravan which I've managed to place, I don't think the error is with the server. Changing anything to do with housing will always be a touchy subject, some people stand to save a lot of money, whilst the people with multiple large homes stand to lose a lot.

you are right though, was difficult not having a house, make sure you're utilising multiple accounts and bank boxes.
The question is: do you want a stall playerbase with veterans only, or do you want fresh new players over the time?
New players dont want a castle right on the start. But a small house to place some chests, decorate it a bit and show it off to some friends would be the minimum.
 

Doran

Neophyte
A new landmass would be ideal but that is a LOT of work, that can take months!

I propose a yet another idea: Expanded inn rooms.

Being able to recall from the inn room is a great change and makes the inn room much more functional. We can now have entire rune libraries, for example.

Would it be difficult to code expanding or doubling the room size for an extra cost? Such as a large is 10k per week, renting out an adjoining room of the same size is 150% extra, or 25k per week for both?

And you don't even have to connect them; upgrading can simply add teleporter tiles in both rooms and connect them. All you have to do is step on it to go back and forth.

This may be a nice solution while a new land mass is being built.
Im not yet sure how these inn rooms work, but for me it was always the freedom that anyone can freely visit my house and talk/interact to me while im crafting something. Even friends visiting me was very nice.

i could also show some decorations to the publicity, the inn room is something which doesnt stand for ultima online.
 

AreYouKidden

Legendary
Im not yet sure how these inn rooms work, but for me it was always the freedom that anyone can freely visit my house and talk/interact to me while im crafting something. Even friends visiting me was very nice.

i could also show some decorations to the publicity, the inn room is something which doesnt stand for ultima online.
100% agree - and that option still exists for those who want the public appeal, the inn room is meant as a stepping stone, until you can land yourself a house either cheaply through effort and the idoc system (which really is a random based system now), or through just saving up, and purchasing the home you want. But the expectation should not be to have a high end purchase like this, in the first 3 months, unless your extremely active, and focused. And if your into PvM, and the end game systems, there is some investment to make there as well, the inn room allows you to focus on those methods, to make you farm even more efficiently.

It is also UO though - farming isn't the only way to make gold, and while people have mentioned it'd take forever to farm - there are gatherers, marketeers, crafters, even PvP'rs can make bank through PvP events (which are mostly blessed gear - with the exception of potions) - battle commendations are very lucrative..
 

AreYouKidden

Legendary
on outlands even a very small house costs SO MUCH gold , a new player cant farm in a reasonable time.
I've asked a couple of times and seem to get a lack of answer, but what do you consider a reasonable amount of time? I personally would never even consider being able to get a house in under 3 months - but that's based on my semi casual playstyle, so that time frame is different for everyone. The reality is, it's very achievable, the mountain looks much bigger than it actually is.

Also having been here since launch, I understand where the economy and market are, and how to make bank, and recognize it's not just housing that is this expensive. The question you should be asking, isn't why is housing soo expensive (it's because we are the most popular shard around), the question you should be asking is, how do you make bank, to get in on the real estate market.

One lucky drop, a pair of purple jam boots (which can drop anywhere, it's based on RNG chance), and you've got yourself 1.5 million gold. As a PvP'r doing events, you can get up to 15 battle commendations a day, and make 75k-100k fairly easy off those, you don't even need to level up a PvM'r. Mining/gathering is another avenue, where you can literally mine 5k-10k ore a day, and they sell for 10-12 gp per. Or plain out marketeering, never even have to step foot in the wilderness by low off people, sell high. Again this all depends on how long you play daily.

All the while, you can get yourself into an inn room, your first day of playing, for 5k a week, and enjoy every luxury a house has to offer - with the exception of random strangers, thieves, and PK's wandering around..

Ps. sorry for the redundant content - but some redundant threads got merged, so it is what it is :)
 

Cerctus

Neophyte
Hi there,
created a new account on outlands today and never played on outlands before. Was reading the feature lists before i started to play here:

"At roughly 50% of the size of the original UO map, player interactions should also happen more frequently – but don’t fret, we have nearly the same amount of room for housing as the original map.. And if we ever need more, creating new land is easy."

According to many forum posts and my personal experience so far the current situation is absolute horribe , especialy for newer players like me.

Are there any plans? I mean its possible to just add a landmass for very small houses (like placing rocks&trees so only small houses are fiting in) , so newer players like me could afford a cheap deed. Its okay if the bigger ones are rare and very expensive ( still pretty... unfair for newer players without 15millions of gold ^^. ).
The issue is people hoarding houses to sell. There are a lot of empty houses just holding the spots to be sold. There are a lot of people selling many houses at the same time on the discord. If there is no punishment for having an empty house in the world (much greater taxes, much less time to renew before idoc, etc) a new land mass would just be filled with houses to be sold later on. People would create new accounts and then transfer money or deeds to place a house for them. I guess houses should have been IP-restricted.

This shard is really great. I might say that it is even greater than UO ever was in its prime. This is one of the first time my guild and I play an MMO for more than a month in a decade or so.

But housing is a problem that is very difficult to solve.

Finding a house spot is a really fun activity by itself. So why not create a feature based on this? A separate land mass that resets every month. This way the housing prices for this island would be really low and people would have a chance to find a spot and place a house for 1 month. Every month, the terrain could be a bit different. And depending on the demand for these temporary houses, you could increase or decrease the size of island based on interest. Might be a fun acitivity to try. Would also be a kind of gold sink as well, since each month, people would need to buy a new housing deed. The prices for the deeds could be adjusted for this specific feature as well.
 

Zog

Neophyte
i also played on Drachenfels and Europe back on t2a/Renaissance.

yes plots for bigger houses were very expensive , BUT a small tower or small buildings in general were pretty cheap and if you had the time you could be able to place one on your own after some hours. I remember a small tower was sold for 250k , way more expensive then the deed itself but still reasonable.
Logs were at around 2 millions , there it started to get expensive.

on outlands even a very small house costs SO MUCH gold , a new player cant farm in a reasonable time.
The only homes for sale on Atlantic when I started were either for absolutely crazy gold or on ebay. Slower shards had spots that could be had i'm sure. I don't want to sound negative or anything. But- there are people on this shard that have played for a long time. Farmed, chopped wood or mined ore. Saved their shinnies to buy a crazy priced home. Would it not be a kick in the teeth to them for a new land mass to open just so players checking the shard out could place a 50k plot?
 
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newbasaur

Neophyte
I feel like if IDOC land parcels were auctioned off it would fix a lot of the hyperinflation / manipulation that is going on. With that said, I realize that it would kill content for the IDOC PK zerg guilds and goes against that classic feel of the game so it likely wouldn't be received well.

I have a wagon but I'm at the point that I have grown out of it even after expanding secures up to 5. The next step, excluding homes that have a couple more secure, goes up to ~9-11m. This is a pretty big leap.

As others have mentioned, I would like to see the Inn room expansion. I would gladly pay a premium to have three inn rooms combined into a single room and pay 30-50k a week until I am able to afford a real house.
 

AreYouKidden

Legendary
I feel like if IDOC land parcels were auctioned off it would fix a lot of the hyperinflation / manipulation that is going on. With that said, I realize that it would kill content for the IDOC PK zerg guilds and goes against that classic feel of the game so it likely wouldn't be received well.

I have a wagon but I'm at the point that I have grown out of it even after expanding secures up to 5. The next step, excluding homes that have a couple more secure, goes up to ~9-11m. This is a pretty big leap.

As others have mentioned, I would like to see the Inn room expansion. I would gladly pay a premium to have three inn rooms combined into a single room and pay 30-50k a week until I am able to afford a real house.
In theory you can have 3 accounts, so 3 large inn rooms - 30k a week, invite all your other characters as co-owners to each of your homes, and you can go in and out of your 3 rooms without an issue.. I'm not sure how that actually works in terms of going into a room you have access to while owning a room on your account, but I assume it's possible to basically do that.
 
Land mass won't help at all. It will just provide a temporary price reduction (smaller homes only) for a couple months and we are back at where we started. Plots will be taken before the end of the day. Aside from the initial land rush - no one is ever gonna slowly save up and place a house.

It will have to be approached from a different angle

Is there a reason we can't reduce number of accounts from 3 to 2? I mean with character transfers and increased character slots, couldn't this be looked into? Give everyone a refund that purchased that bench player customization. I'm just trying to think outside the box because I know there are enforcement difficulties trying to make housing go from per Account → per IP. ...Thinking about it, it's a little gluttonous that we need THREE accounts.

Additionally, there is no benefit to maintaining a small footprint here in Outlands. Go big or go home. If you have the money (and eventually you will) anyone and everyone will get the biggest house you can get your hands on. If there were reduced taxes for smaller houses or some other benefit to living in a small house, then maybe everyone and their mom wouldn't knock down their 2 small houses for a bigger house.

Of course take all this with a grain of salt. Housing on a packed server is just expensive - end game goals. People need to realize this. Nothing is inherently wrong, it's just the economy humming along. Anything worth a damn is expensive..... where is my Powder Iris cloth????
 

Doran

Neophyte
The only homes for sale on Atlantic when I started were either for absolutely crazy gold or on ebay. Slower shards had spots that could be had i'm sure. I don't want to sound negative or anything. But- there are people on this shard that have played for a long time. Farmed, chopped wood or mined ore. Saved their shinnies to buy a crazy priced home. Would it not be a kick in the teeth to them for a new land mass to open just so players checking the shard out could place a 50k plot?
My opionon: No.

because the person who initially placed the deed only payed these 50k. For what reasons should he deserve to make 2millions earning with it?

i fully understand that 10x20 plots are limited, bigger houses are the endgame goal for me. I fully agree a estate broking subgame should be able to work for these bigger houses.

8x8 plots should be affordable in the first 1-2 weeks , in my opinion . Such a tiny and limited small house shouldnt be a endgame goal. But having such limited space for small houses will tend people to make several accounts to idoc/buy&sell these small houses.

But in the end this is my opionen, different shards different prices.


Land mass won't help at all. It will just provide a temporary price reduction (smaller homes only) for a couple months and we are back at where we started. Plots will be taken before the end of the day. Aside from the initial land rush - no one is ever gonna slowly save up and place a house.

It will have to be approached from a different angle

Is there a reason we can't reduce number of accounts from 3 to 2? I mean with character transfers and increased character slots, couldn't this be looked into? Give everyone a refund that purchased that bench player customization. I'm just trying to think outside the box because I know there are enforcement difficulties trying to make housing go from per Account → per IP. ...Thinking about it, it's a little gluttonous that we need THREE accounts.

Additionally, there is no benefit to maintaining a small footprint here in Outlands. Go big or go home. If you have the money (and eventually you will) anyone and everyone will get the biggest house you can get your hands on. If there were reduced taxes for smaller houses or some other benefit to living in a small house, then maybe everyone and their mom wouldn't knock down their 2 small houses for a bigger house.

Of course take all this with a grain of salt. Housing on a packed server is just expensive - end game goals. People need to realize this. Nothing is inherently wrong, it's just the economy humming along. Anything worth a damn is expensive..... where is my Powder Iris cloth????
Imho new land will lower the prices by a huge amount. Im okay with 200-300k for a 8x8. Its still a big difference compared to the 50k deed price.
biggest problem are 3 accounts per person and all or most veterans with 3 accounts are also owning 3 houses.

on the official OSI server there werent alot people with 2 or 3 accounts because accounts were 13$ a month. On outlands theyr free.
 
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AreYouKidden

Legendary
My opionon: No.

because the person who initially placed the deed only payed these 50k. For what reasons should he deserve to make 2millions earning with it?
For the reason that when we earned that 50k, it was purely gold farm at about 5-10k per hour, without aspect, mastery chain, codex's, and any other new system introduced to enhance performance, and you couldn't sell a lucky dark jam cloth for 300k, or a skill orb for 40k, or a command core for 50k... Because ore you could only sell for 2 gp per, not 11 gp per... Lumber, was worth 1 gp per 2, not 4-5 gp per.. It's inflation, it's economy...

8x8 plots should be affordable in the first 1-2 weeks , in my opinion . Such a tiny and limited small house shouldnt be a endgame goal. But having such limited space for small houses will tend people to make several accounts to idoc/buy&sell these small houses.
Land is limited, it's a nice thought 1-2 weeks, and honestly if you grind it out, you can probably get yourself into a wagon that early, but that's all dependent on how much time you have to play, and how lucky you get on drops. But this is why we have inn rooms, that are affordable, and offer up every single convenience of housing, yes I know they aren't the magical housing, but that's the price of a populated server unfortunately - thankfully they gave us options here, and honestly they have stated they are willing to expand land to a degree, but also want to ensure it's done right.. They've captured a certain allure and magic in the world, they, and we don't want it destroyed with a Malas incident here.. If they add too much land, or population drops after adding land, you end up with a situation where there is too much empty land available (A situation many servers suffer, it's a horrible look.
 

Doran

Neophyte
Land mass won't help at all. It will just provide a temporary price reduction (smaller homes only) for a couple months and we are back at where we started. Plots will be taken before the end of the day. Aside from the initial land rush - no one is ever gonna slowly save up and place a house.

It will have to be approached from a different angle

Is there a reason we can't reduce number of accounts from 3 to 2? I mean with character transfers and increased character slots, couldn't this be looked into? Give everyone a refund that purchased that bench player customization. I'm just trying to think outside the box because I know there are enforcement difficulties trying to make housing go from per Account → per IP. ...Thinking about it, it's a little gluttonous that we need THREE accounts.

Additionally, there is no benefit to maintaining a small footprint here in Outlands. Go big or go home. If you have the money (and eventually you will) anyone and everyone will get the biggest house you can get your hands on. If there were reduced taxes for smaller houses or some other benefit to living in a small house, then maybe everyone and their mom wouldn't knock down their 2 small houses for a bigger house.

Of course take all this with a grain of salt. Housing on a packed server is just expensive - end game goals. People need to realize this. Nothing is inherently wrong, it's just the economy humming along. Anything worth a damn is expensive..... where is my Powder Iris cloth????
For the reason that when we earned that 50k, it was purely gold farm at about 5-10k per hour, without aspect, mastery chain, codex's, and any other new system introduced to enhance performance, and you couldn't sell a lucky dark jam cloth for 300k, or a skill orb for 40k, or a command core for 50k... Because ore you could only sell for 2 gp per, not 11 gp per... Lumber, was worth 1 gp per 2, not 4-5 gp per.. It's inflation, it's economy...



Land is limited, it's a nice thought 1-2 weeks, and honestly if you grind it out, you can probably get yourself into a wagon that early, but that's all dependent on how much time you have to play, and how lucky you get on drops. But this is why we have inn rooms, that are affordable, and offer up every single convenience of housing, yes I know they aren't the magical housing, but that's the price of a populated server unfortunately - thankfully they gave us options here, and honestly they have stated they are willing to expand land to a degree, but also want to ensure it's done right.. They've captured a certain allure and magic in the world, they, and we don't want it destroyed with a Malas incident here.. If they add too much land, or population drops after adding land, you end up with a situation where there is too much empty land available (A situation many servers suffer, it's a horrible look.
question is when the landmass will be increased, first post of this thread is from 2019, 2!!!! years old. And theres still not a decision.
 

Elric

Adept
Sometime between July of 2021 and September of 2047 if at all. Until then, rent your rooms and stimulate the Outlands economy.
 

AreYouKidden

Legendary
question is when the landmass will be increased, first post of this thread is from 2019, 2!!!! years old. And theres still not a decision.
I can appreciate passion for the game, and that you are fairly new around here - but I'm not sure these kind of comments actually contribute or are accurate at all - because nothing has been set in stone, a date announced, doesn't mean they haven't made a decision, or haven't done anything in 2 years. It's being disingenuous to staff here, because they've actually been working on this problem quite a bit.

I'll recap for you though:
  • they added a number of small house spots discreetly, it wasn't a lot, however as soon as a veteran realized some new spots were available, they quickly scoured the lands, and all were sucked up, and put back on the market, no new players got relief from this.
  • they lowered the IDOC timers, and required actual house owners to refresh after 28 days, so friends couldn't refresh them forever - this actually put a number of houses back into active players hands, and was successful, however you can only reduce the timer soo much, before its contributing to a different problem of nuisance to your active players.
  • they introduced Inn Rooms - to give all the conveniences of owning a house - granted in its infancy it still had a number of issues, like they were too small, couldn't recall from them, couldn't invite friends/other accounts - probably 300-400 inn rooms were being used..
  • They introduced IDOC changes to try and eliminate guild monopolies on the market, and get more people the opportunity to luck themselves into an overland home.
  • they increased and offered a number of different size inn rooms, and allowed you to friend others, and also made inn masters that guilds could purchase, so newer players could access them from guildhouse, and player towns - to which was received very well, inn rooms I believe grew to around 800-1000 rooms fairly quick
  • they've now tweaked inn rooms further, allowing you to recall, which everyone has been receptive to, but we'll see where that takes us to alleviate the issue.
I know none of this, is the magical fix of more land that you think more land is - but it goes to show they have been trying to find a creative solution to the problem for the past 2 years, without massively changing the landmass, and dynamic of the land, or destroying what people already own here. The original map was being worked on for 5+ years, the map doesn't draw itself, and certainly kneejerk changes won't fall within a vision or purpose..

I for one am glad they've taken the approach they have, I believe it is the proper way to go about it. They have said when they are ready, they are not opposed to releasing more land, but they want to do it right, and also want to make sure they've exhausted other avenues. I know several people who with all the changes and advantages to inn rooms, have actually sold off their overland homes, and moved into an inn..

Also consider @Doran that this is a labor of love, someone opening up a free shard for everyone, not someone's full time job, not a professional company, though they do carry themselves with an air of professionalism or they wouldn't have the success they have. But the reality is, things take time.. And all the while, they've been developing, tweaking, and releasing content for the actual game, for people to play and enjoy...
 

Posnik

Neophyte
I was about to post some sugestions but after reading ALL posts here I think most of good sugestions / problems were raised, the only solution I had was to use new land to make soviet apartments (lots of small rooms in a big building, it would be a mix of the inn system but ppl get to see your things like a house) but that was pointed out by Owyn on the podcast (btw, very nice to know this shard has its own podcast).

IMO it is cool to have a house, but it is fine not having as well. I say this because community here is very strong and that is the MAIN feature in Outlands and that is the main factor making me come everyday to play here. It is good to know the staff keep trying new things to deal with problems and they do the best they can, at least is the impression that i get.

I recently got a rental room and i did it because I needed to manage my game resources better between my character but until tuesday this week I was bank-only player and as I said: having a house is cool but not necessary.
 

TwisteR

Neophyte
I think that high price on houses only make them more desirable, so buying a house becomes a true game milestone.
Inn system is amazing. The only thing it lacks to fully replace houses is an ability to let other characters in your room, but I think it's ok to keep it this way so the houses keep at least one clear benefit over inns.

Btw, wagons are pretty affordable. A developed character can farm 50-100k gold per hour, let's say 75k for the sake of argument. I recently bought a nice wagon for 850k, which translates roughly into 12 hours of farming.
 

Talinos

Neophyte
I think that high price on houses only make them more desirable, so buying a house becomes a true game milestone.
Inn system is amazing. The only thing it lacks to fully replace houses is an ability to let other characters in your room, but I think it's ok to keep it this way so the houses keep at least one clear benefit over inns.

Btw, wagons are pretty affordable. A developed character can farm 50-100k gold per hour, let's say 75k for the sake of argument. I recently bought a nice wagon for 850k, which translates roughly into 12 hours of farming.
You can let other characters in your inn room. My brother and I have been sharing a loft since we started.