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My case against PVP (disclaimer: this is my first post, please excuse any grammatical errors as I am using voice to text)

Take tracking in your build Zebulon and you'll be pretty safe. You could go the extra step and do a hiding/stealth backstabber build.
My hiding, stealth, detect hidden, lock picking are all at 100 or above. A couple of my skills are at 120. I have this character to pick dungeon safes, and eventually I'd like to go after treasure chest. It's hard to add on additional points without shaving critical points off elsewhere. I'd like to add tracking, but I'm not really sure where I can lose some points until I get my thieves codex up. I don't like to steal from players, so I steal from monsters and do chests. I actually stole from a mini boss the other day and got $2,500 gold and a skill stat scroll. I tried to steal from the night walker and she killed me. I might hit her up again just for s**** and giggles.
 
This exactly. Once you get to a point where you're pretty comfortable with what you're farming and you add in tracking on your template you can literally farm circles around the PK PvP action. As long as you are aware of your surroundings and don't farm yourself into a corner you are nigh invlulnerable.

Except PK squads of 3+. If a group of PKs get on to you it's pretty tough to survive that, rightfully so.
Both last night and this morning I was run down in Shadow spire by a gang of reds. Each time I was killed and everything I had worked for was taken. Last night I was at a vendor, shopping at anchors rest when I was attacked by another PK who not only looted everything I had, but carved my corpse up. I was stealthy while shopping because I don't like to shop out in the open, when a blue player revealed me and killed me. My dungeon picker is pretty well defenseless at this point because I don't know what I can do to fortify him without losing my farming skill points. This type of character is new for me, I've always had tamers and mages.
 
Both last night and this morning I was run down in Shadow spire by a gang of reds. Each time I was killed and everything I had worked for was taken. Last night I was at a vendor, shopping at anchors rest when I was attacked by another PK who not only looted everything I had, but carved my corpse up. I was stealthy while shopping because I don't like to shop out in the open, when a blue player revealed me and killed me. My dungeon picker is pretty well defenseless at this point because I don't know what I can do to fortify him without losing my farming skill points. This type of character is new for me, I've always had tamers and mages.
Maybe this is not the game for you, have you try world of warcraft?
 
Ah, yet another discussion about PvP on this server.

I have made several posts myself on this topic, mostly concerning the frustrating aspects of melee combat being so RNG based.

Often I see supporters of the PvP claim that there's data to support that the PvP is in a good place here, but I have some questions on that.

I have heard the argument that the number of players in game is steadily increasing, showing that the ruleset of this server is successful. However, this server allows for up to three characters to be logged in by one person simultaneously. Is the population truly growing, or are there just a lot of people multi-boxing which is allowed?

There was another post about the faction wars system not having a high participation rate. Is this true?
As this system is mostly focused on PvP, I feel it's relevant to the PvP discussion. I stopped playing before this system went live.

I really don't think any major changes will take place or anyone will change their minds by getting clarification to these questions, but I just want to know what's true.
 
I am not sure about the answers to your questions as that would be a system admin knowledge of the server. There was a particular issue with the one who started this thread. They were starting to resurrect 2+ year old posts about PKs and then began stating that if he donates enough money they will bend to his will and spin up a PvPless copy of Outlands. The surprising thing is that Outlands has many comments and posts on Reddit about how it is kind of a T2A era server (that morphed alot over time) and is PvP where some posts were about how they keep getting murdered by PKs. Visiting these forums or the Discord will also present that face of the shard. It is by no means a secret of what the server is.

It is at a point where it is like walking into a country/western bar and start bitching at each of the patrons how the bar doesn't play heavy metal music. If they hate country music, then why did they go in there? There was a big neon horse riding cowboy on the building. Why don't they go to a heavy metal bar? Is it because the country/western bar has better drinks so you want to try and change the place to fit the heavy metal theme? Because to just leave and go to the heavy metal bar means shittier drinks?

Then you have the question, "why are so many people fine with the design of Outlands?" If the PK issue was really a problem, wouldn't half+ of the user base be complaining right now. It was different during the late 90s era for sure, where we had to play UO no matter what because there was no other MMORPG. But as soon as PvPless Everquest came out, many switched over. They had a choice of MMO now. Just like UO freeshard players have choices out their that fit their lifestyle right now. Basically an over saturation of UO servers. Pick one.

People want to post an opinion about how they hate PKs? Fine. If other folks add to the discussion then maybe there is something there. But resurrecting year old threads (basically spamming the forums) wasn't the right answer. Make a point. If it isn't embraced, move on. Don't stay on a server that causes so much frustration. People that like playing Outlands (PKers or not) seem to like it just fine.
 
I'd like to throw my opinion on this. I only do PvM and mostly solo play or play with a friend. I do understand the frustration and as a WOW player I was, I also had to addapt a little bit, but in my opinion risk is what makes this game so great and emotionally intense, even for pure PvMers.

There are some days that you lose everything you make, but normally you always get richer bit by bit. You have to decide when to play safe and when and why to take higher risks. For sure you can have bad luck sometimes and get ganked, but in my experience most of times you die, it was some decission you took that lead you to death and can learn from that.

Play with resources you can afford, decide when to go back home or take a step further. Most of times you can get back to bank and into the same spot of the dungeon again in a matter of 2 minutes, even less.

I really think that turning the PvM into a trammel experience would turn this game into some kind of a single player game. Embrace the risk of the game and consider it part of the experience. Everything you achieve will become more meaningful.
 
My hiding, stealth, detect hidden, lock picking are all at 100 or above. A couple of my skills are at 120. I have this character to pick dungeon safes, and eventually I'd like to go after treasure chest. It's hard to add on additional points without shaving critical points off elsewhere. I'd like to add tracking, but I'm not really sure where I can lose some points until I get my thieves codex up. I don't like to steal from players, so I steal from monsters and do chests. I actually stole from a mini boss the other day and got $2,500 gold and a skill stat scroll. I tried to steal from the night walker and she killed me. I might hit her up again just for s**** and giggles.
Pure thief/rogue build, nice! I was thinking of doing one, at the moment I have stealth thief with wrestling and healing, and a PVP "bully" thief.

It might be quite hard to turn him into a treasure hunter, because ideally you will want mining too, as it increases the search area for digging up the chest. Also there are monsters to kill so you might need multiple characters. Of course you can do the killing and digging on a different character and then gate your rogue in to open the chest. My treasure hunter has:

Lockpicking 120
Detect hidden 120
Mining 100
Magery 100
Meditiation 100
Spirit speak 100
(I forgot what my other points are in)

He can use the summoner's tome and wizard's grimoire to kill the mobs, before digging up the chest. However I usually go with friends as he is VERY vulnerable to PKs without wrestling or resist (or hiding). I have a separate cartographer character to decipher the maps.
Both last night and this morning I was run down in Shadow spire by a gang of reds. Each time I was killed and everything I had worked for was taken. Last night I was at a vendor, shopping at anchors rest when I was attacked by another PK who not only looted everything I had, but carved my corpse up. I was stealthy while shopping because I don't like to shop out in the open, when a blue player revealed me and killed me. My dungeon picker is pretty well defenseless at this point because I don't know what I can do to fortify him without losing my farming skill points. This type of character is new for me, I've always had tamers and mages.
A good tip is to stay stealthed as you walk through the dungeon. If reds come they usually won't notice you (unless you're unlucky and they see you with tracking), it is slow but quite safe. It's tempting to save time and run through to the next chest but it can also be your downfall.

Yeah a pure rogue doesn't really have any defense, that's why most people will have either lockpicking/detect or snooping/stealing and not both. Snooping and stealing are very easy to train so you could always drop those and make a separate thief. Then your picker could have tracking/wrestling/magery/med/healing whatever you prefer.
 
Everything you achieve will become more meaningful.
This sums up perfectly why I love non-consensual PvP servers more than their consensual-only counterparts. Leaving a dungeon with a pack full of rares and gold is so, so much more rewarding. Much more to prepare and plan for, much more risk and MUCH MORE REWARD! Continuing to farm with a 100k rare drop on you in the name of efficiency makes that PK chase pretty scary, lol.

Maxing out all DPS skills and spam killing your DPS abilities with no chance of reprecussions and no real threat in a scripted PvM environment...... I'll pass. Where's the balance? Where's the risk?
 
I left Outlands for one single reason - PKs and thieves.

I was playing 8+ hours a day for couple of months, maybe half a year, bought a small house, joined a big guild, learned and interacted with community.
How I would describe Outlands in one single word? Predatory

I love UO in general. I love PvM, crafting, community and I can tolerate some risk in forms of PKs. I am occasionally willing to fight back and join some PvP. But I also need to have time to relax and chill. The relax and chill aspect was impossible on Outlands for me and that made me quit.

PKs (and PK groups) were sweeping through dungeons on a 10-15 minute marks during peak times when most of my friends played too. PvP was always fast-paced, macro oriented with mages dominating it all around. With pre-casted spells, I couldn't afford to sip on a tea while in a dungeon as that could cost me my life. Having my eyes glued to the monitor and my fingers always on a rope macro was no relax and chill for me. Dungeoning was a stress, not fun and only because of ever-present PKs.
Being in a city chatting with people, crafting or watching them play wasn't relax either as I was very often a target for thieves and bullies. Not to mention when I needed to find a vendor and buy something - PKs again.

Outlands really is about conflict. Some people love it, some don't. The problem is, there is no room to chill and relax.
Sanctuary dungeon was introduced at the time when I was leaving. What Sanctuary is is essentially a very small trammel map. Finally some peace and relax i enjoyed, but too small map to have fun for an entire week. A step in the right direction to allow players like me have some chill and relaxed gameplay.

I am watching Outlands news and reading forums even months after I quit, hoping things would change. They did not so far. Maybe one day will, maybe not.
I can tolerate being a prey now and then, it is just too much at the current state and clearly, that is only my own opinion (and some other PvM players)

If having a constant conflict and predatory environment is what Outlands has as a vision, that's totally fine, at least it's unique.
Then I made the right choice to leave rather than stay unhappy.

However, I believe there IS a way to make room for those who would play here in a more casual, friendly way without exploiting others or being exploited. They just need more breathing room.
 
Pure thief/rogue build, nice! I was thinking of doing one, at the moment I have stealth thief with wrestling and healing, and a PVP "bully" thief.

It might be quite hard to turn him into a treasure hunter, because ideally you will want mining too, as it increases the search area for digging up the chest. Also there are monsters to kill so you might need multiple characters. Of course you can do the killing and digging on a different character and then gate your rogue in to open the chest. My treasure hunter has:

Lockpicking 120
Detect hidden 120
Mining 100
Magery 100
Meditiation 100
Spirit speak 100
(I forgot what my other points are in)

He can use the summoner's tome and wizard's grimoire to kill the mobs, before digging up the chest. However I usually go with friends as he is VERY vulnerable to PKs without wrestling or resist (or hiding). I have a separate cartographer character to decipher the maps.

A good tip is to stay stealthed as you walk through the dungeon. If reds come they usually won't notice you (unless you're unlucky and they see you with tracking), it is slow but quite safe. It's tempting to save time and run through to the next chest but it can also be your downfall.

Yeah a pure rogue doesn't really have any defense, that's why most people will have either lockpicking/detect or snooping/stealing and not both. Snooping and stealing are very easy to train so you could always drop those and make a separate thief. Then your picker could have tracking/wrestling/magery/med/healing whatever you prefer.
I'm really enjoying playing it. My son even wants to start playing, so we
I left Outlands for one single reason - PKs and thieves.

I was playing 8+ hours a day for couple of months, maybe half a year, bought a small house, joined a big guild, learned and interacted with community.
How I would describe Outlands in one single word? Predatory

I love UO in general. I love PvM, crafting, community and I can tolerate some risk in forms of PKs. I am occasionally willing to fight back and join some PvP. But I also need to have time to relax and chill. The relax and chill aspect was impossible on Outlands for me and that made me quit.

PKs (and PK groups) were sweeping through dungeons on a 10-15 minute marks during peak times when most of my friends played too. PvP was always fast-paced, macro oriented with mages dominating it all around. With pre-casted spells, I couldn't afford to sip on a tea while in a dungeon as that could cost me my life. Having my eyes glued to the monitor and my fingers always on a rope macro was no relax and chill for me. Dungeoning was a stress, not fun and only because of ever-present PKs.
Being in a city chatting with people, crafting or watching them play wasn't relax either as I was very often a target for thieves and bullies. Not to mention when I needed to find a vendor and buy something - PKs again.

Outlands really is about conflict. Some people love it, some don't. The problem is, there is no room to chill and relax.
Sanctuary dungeon was introduced at the time when I was leaving. What Sanctuary is is essentially a very small trammel map. Finally some peace and relax i enjoyed, but too small map to have fun for an entire week. A step in the right direction to allow players like me have some chill and relaxed gameplay.

I am watching Outlands news and reading forums even months after I quit, hoping things would change. They did not so far. Maybe one day will, maybe not.
I can tolerate being a prey now and then, it is just too much at the current state and clearly, that is only my own opinion (and some other PvM players)

If having a constant conflict and predatory environment is what Outlands has as a vision, that's totally fine, at least it's unique.
Then I made the right choice to leave rather than stay unhappy.

However, I believe there IS a way to make room for those who would play here in a more casual, friendly way without exploiting others or being exploited. They just need more breathing room.
I can appreciate the way you articulated your point of view and I couldn't agree more. However, there are those stodgy players here in the forums who would say that you and I are the problem, because we do want to chill and relax. I'm not sitting up to one in the morning hyped up on Red Bull with my eyes darting from one pixel to the other on my monitor like a Terminator robot looking for victims to kill.

I'm having fun crafting, picking dungeon chests, helping other players by leaving bandages and cure potions.. there are many facets to the game that don't involve stealing someone's hard-earned dungeon loot. And to add insult to injury, people are downright rude and vindictive about it if you try to complain, you are told that you're trolling the boards. So now you're not allowed to disagree with people either? Right. And there comes a point where you have so much invested in a character that it's hard to walk away from The shard and you kid yourself saying that you'll learn a better way and everything will be all right. So in the end, the only thing you are left to do is just to leave the game.

my son and I are about to start playing together. I just created an account for him and I'm going to build some characters for him. I created a guild called den of thieves that I'm hoping will be an honor among thieves guild where we can do dungeon crawls without victimizing other players and stand up against the PK reds. I want to have someone who goes from town to town alerting people of red PK mobs as we see them in dungeons. I'm tired of these lawless groups running around and taking from people. You don't earn it by putting in hard work and going from chest to chest, corpse to corpse, dungeon corner to dungeon corner, then you shouldn't have it. Killing someone and looting their corpse has no honor.

If you are in a PVP situation that is consensual and is your group versus another group, then so be it. But walking up on a solo stealther who is working hard to try and have fun and pick dungeon chest, killing them and taking everything they have is not honorable. If you want to give the game another shot, contact me and let's chat. I've spoken to a few other people who are wanting to start playing. So perhaps we can form a group.
 
Pure thief/rogue build, nice! I was thinking of doing one, at the moment I have stealth thief with wrestling and healing, and a PVP "bully" thief.

It might be quite hard to turn him into a treasure hunter, because ideally you will want mining too, as it increases the search area for digging up the chest. Also there are monsters to kill so you might need multiple characters. Of course you can do the killing and digging on a different character and then gate your rogue in to open the chest. My treasure hunter has:

Lockpicking 120
Detect hidden 120
Mining 100
Magery 100
Meditiation 100
Spirit speak 100
(I forgot what my other points are in)

He can use the summoner's tome and wizard's grimoire to kill the mobs, before digging up the chest. However I usually go with friends as he is VERY vulnerable to PKs without wrestling or resist (or hiding). I have a separate cartographer character to decipher the maps.

A good tip is to stay stealthed as you walk through the dungeon. If reds come they usually won't notice you (unless you're unlucky and they see you with tracking), it is slow but quite safe. It's tempting to save time and run through to the next chest but it can also be your downfall.

Yeah a pure rogue doesn't really have any defense, that's why most people will have either lockpicking/detect or snooping/stealing and not both. Snooping and stealing are very easy to train so you could always drop those and make a separate thief. Then your picker could have tracking/wrestling/magery/med/healing whatever you prefer.
I like that idea. I can drop my snooping and stealing because I don't really use them. Instead I can add tracking and magery! Thanks for the good tips. I'm enjoying the character and have created a guild that I hope to build full of other players like this. Perhaps we can mount a defense against pkers.
 
Don't continue to come here and bitch over and over about the same shit. You knew exactly what you were doing while posting about your grievances. You resurrected various years old threads to post the same crap. That is called spamming. Then you almost demanded things change cuz you bought a prev coin. Lastly you pulled that sovereign citizen crap about how you are not violating any forum rules and then telling Owyn if he moderates that you will essentially make a reddit throw away account and post about how he killed kittens and ruined your UO life forever. Basically putting your finger in his face and saying "I'm not touching you". You made your point about Outlands and how you cannot seem to join a non-PVP server for some reason I cannot understand. Barely anyone sympathizes with you because most don't think there is a problem. At least Sargoth had the clear sense to realize their are more enjoyable activities out there. Compare this to server lag. If 5 people, out of 3,000, only have lag then perhaps Outlands does not have the network problem. The 5 people do.
 
You are speaking for yourself. This is your preferential style of play and I do not share it.
You could have stopped right there. Because as you said, this is OUR preferred way of playing and we don't share it with you.
Why should we have to change something that has been established for years because you can't play the game the way it was designed?
If you don't enjoy it or can't handle it, head over to another shard. There are plenty of shards that share your playstyle.
Best of luck to you.

Also I'm a pvm player. I get melted by mage pks on my main since he is a tamer and a monk (echo). On my nox dexxer echo I fight back though.
 
You could have stopped right there. Because as you said, this is OUR preferred way of playing and we don't share it with you.
Why should we have to change something that has been established for years because you can't play the game the way it was designed?
If you don't enjoy it or can't handle it, head over to another shard. There are plenty of shards that share your playstyle.
Best of luck to you.

Also I'm a pvm player. I get melted by mage pks on my main since he is a tamer and a monk (echo). On my nox dexxer echo I fight back though.
We'll see.
 
I couldn't afford to sip on a tea while in a dungeon as that could cost me my life.
I mean, it is a dungeon. Right?????

I want to play a game where dungeons are full of excitement and risk and require me to be ready for anything.

If you think dungeons are a place where you should be able to calmly sip your tea and cradle your balls, I don't ever want to play a game where you have any say in design.

UO, Outlands more specifically, is well known for it's wild, wild West and anything goes gameplay. Why you expect to come to a game like this and have a calm stroll through one of its most dangerous and lucrative areas (dungeons) is baffling.
 
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I'm having fun crafting, picking dungeon chests, helping other players by leaving bandages and cure potions.. there are many facets to the game that don't involve stealing someone's hard-earned dungeon loot.
This is why I play UO. You adapt or die.... exactly like you did. Exploring dungeons on a non-stealth character didn't work for you, but instead of quitting like the other dude, @Sargoth, you adapted and used the tools UO has available for you.

And, now it sounds like you have profited enough to a point where your helping fund the start of another player.

Sounds like a success story to me, even if a bit whiny.
 
Another one of those posts. I can understand the frustration of dying, however after reading the numerous topics about PVP you should've known the answer. I don't see this shard becomming trammel or have a "pvm" option, ever. There is already Sanctuary dungeon for a safe environment.

This shard is successful for a reason. To the people questioning this, try to not be blinded by your bias because you got PK'd and lost 8k gold.
When I joined only the first Island was available. As soon as the first expansion released, all the houses were placed, and most are owned today by independent players. The housing market these days is so high because there is more demand than offers. Which means, players never stopped joining. Hence why so many homeless people were waiting for the expansion. Also, joining now, you have it WAY easier than anyone in the past. There are so many QOL / updates to not get griefed / killed as easily.

Thinking that PVP will kill the game is simply ridiculous.

What I would like to know is, how the heck do you die to one player ? To 3+, I'd understand... but one ?
Instead of complaining, spend 1 hour training for PVP. And you'll avoid 80%+ of the deaths you've had so far.
Try to make a PVP char, and see how you fare, I think that will shatter your vision of it being "easy" to kill players. You'll be faced with the reality, if you, as a PVP specced red with no PVP knowledge attack a competent PVM player that doesn't have a full glass cannon build, you'll just get killed.
If you never learn, it'll never get better. You will always think the server / the Red player is too strong, too unfair, too this, too that. When in reality you just never bothered to learn and use the tools that you have to survive (and you have plenty).

edit: also, why do you play Red Hand if you do not engage in any player stealing ? You are here complaining about dying to players, but you literally took the risk to be attacked and killed by ANY player for free for a measly 10% black goods bonus. If you want to be safe, there are builds and ways... Taking red hand sure isn't one of them. Feels like you want the advantages, without the downsides... that's not how it works :)
 
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(WARNING: This is a long post)

First off, let me say that I played Ultima online for 11 years. From late 1998 until 2011, I paid a monthly subscription and played daily. I lived in the San Francisco Bay area near where they were headquartered and would even go to team meetings and contribute to how the game was developed. It was a joy to play. But here's the catch; I did not play pvp. Nor was I a member of any guild. I played by myself, building my characters to the very highest levels and doing my own quests. I worked in the trades with certain characters, and funded my other characters such as tamers, mages, samurais, paladins, etc. It was a true joy. I can remember luring ancient wyrms into the small pen and running around taking shots at them until they were dead. It was an amazing escape from reality for a young combat vet, back from multiple deployments, who needed a peaceful way to get out of his head. When I wanted to live life on the edge, I would go into Felucia. 99% of my time was spent in trammel, on baja. I owned a huge house that was beautiful right on the water's edge with another lot next to it, that I had turned into a beautiful waterfall garden in memory of my late younger brother. It really was an amazing part of my life that I look back on with such great fondness. I never got bored with the game and don't feel like I ever needed the challenge of PVP, or whatever it is that draws people to that style of play. I had a few run-ins with PVP folks when I would go to felucia, which was enough to let me know that it was distasteful and not for me. I would only go to felucia to kill demons and gather silver coin and certain things like that that we couldn't get in trammel.

But then, my wife and I began to build a family. I had two children who really were the greatest part of my life and I no longer had time for ultima online. So in 2011 I made the painful decision to quit. I didn't look back, and generally just enjoyed the fond memories. Fast forward to 2024 and watching my son play video games. I have described to him in depth many many times about how amazing Ultima online was and decided that it was time to show him.

I tried numerous shards but never really found anything that felt like a real fit, that is until I discovered outlands. I've been playing for a little over a month now and have brought my characters up to legendary status through tons of hard work. I have donated quite a bit of money to the outlands folks as a show of appreciation for the amazing shard that they give us, free of charge. But along the way I have had to deal with PVP people who routinely ruin my playing experience. Yes, I could build a character and kill them and fight with them and run around and spaz out in large groups. But that's not for me, it's not what I enjoy and it's not my style of play. And I'm certainly not the minority.

There are tons of pvm people out there. There are tons of people out there who enjoy building a home and building skills in trades and creating things. It's not all about killing another person. It's not about robbing from another person after they have worked for hours to fill their backpack with gold, gyms, rares, and whatever else that they think is going to look nice in their room or their home. And then, in the blink of an eye it's gone. Some thoughtless selfish person comes up and chases you down relentlessly, kills you, then loots all of your hard work that he or she didn't do anything to earn and leaves you standing there watching. It's not right. Some of us love the game so much that when that happens it is a true buzz kill. To some of us who have hard lives filled with jobs that we hate and duties and responsibilities that drag us down on a hour by hour basis, games like Ultima online are a great source of escape. And then, here come the pvp'ers. Outlands really should include things like bags of sending so that we can at least send our rares and wealth back to our bank box if they aren't going to provide a safe shard. Providing us one dungeon filled with blues that really is lame in comparison to some of the other dungeons is not the answer. If you're not going to provide us with a facet like trammel, then provide us with an equitable means of transporting our hard-earned spoils back to our bank box. Bags of sending are awesome. Are they not in the game? Why does outlands seam so anti-pvm as a style of play? It seems like they are just that, as they will not give us an alternative other than finding somewhere else to play.

I really don't want to go to uo alive. It's not the same. I'd like to stay in outlands, and build my characters, and enjoy the game and donate money as a way of saying thanks. I like helping young new players. But I don't know what to tell people who tell me they are going to quit playing because of pvps. There is so much that I can say rude and hateful about the PVP folks to describe the way that they make me feel, and how I see them in my mind as pimply faced little geeks and their mother's basement, with no hair on their nuts and no girlfriend. Or groups of said boys gathering together and going out having a contest out of ruining other people's experience.

I could say a lot, and use a lot of hateful colorful descriptors. But it's not going to do anything but polarize people against my stance. I'm asking that people write to the outlands staff and pose alternatives. Even if you are in the PVP camp, you have to understand that this game is comprised of people who aren't exactly like you. It is because of us who are not like you that give you the ability to play. We come back and spend money and work hard to build characters and if we all leave, you guys are going to be left to feed on yourselves and that's not going to last very long. Because even you people who enjoy ruining other people's nights, are capable of having your night ruined. And it will happen when you are the only people who are left. So, you should stand up as well and say to the people who are the developers, let's have an alternative. Let's brainstorm and come up with ways to enrich this game further, for everyone. That's my two cents. I'm sure some of the immature people will read this and have nothing but criticism or insults, but I hope that the thoughtful ones can see the validity of my points and take this discussion further.
2 words
Sanctuary Dungeon
And Owyn being a cool mf gave you a different one every week.