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POLL: What do you think about the 20% Spell Damage Increase bonus in PvP?

What do you think about the 20% Spell Damage Increase bonus in PvP?

  • Leave it as is (20% SDI)

    Votes: 60 55.6%
  • Reduce to 10% SDI

    Votes: 13 12.0%
  • Remove entirely

    Votes: 35 32.4%

  • Total voters
    108
  • Poll closed .
#42
Issue:
20% spell damage increase mages dominating group field PvP - beginning at 3 per side, with their power and importance increasing the bigger the teams get.

Potential solutions:
1. Cap at 10% or 12%, not 20%. The individual skill caps would not change, so 100 inscription would still give 10%, for example, but having 100 inscription and 100 tracking would only give 10%, not 20%.

Likely Outlcomes for solution 1:
Increased template variation. The current meta of scribe/track mages in the field will end. They will need to choose between scribe or tracking, two very powerful skills, and likely supplement their choice with alchemy, parry, healing or even poison. The ‘old’ combination would still also be a worthwhile choice. Still giving 10% SDI, tracking ability, and hamstring.
A slight reduction in the power of single spell drops from a team - that means the power of mass explos, EBs, or flamestrikes.
Some small-scale uproar from people that like their track/scribe mages (and rightly so, it is the strongest template)

2. Reduce top end spell damage for Explo, EB, and FS. Currently the range is 25-33 for explo and EB. Dropping it to 25-30 would drop the maximum damage from 38 to 35. A similar change would be made for FS.

Likely outcomes for solution 2:
Unlikely to affect the templates used in group, scribe/track remains the best field template, but slightly less effective - as are all mage templates.
Changes things for all templates and players. Influences PvM and dueling and smaller scale fighting.
Will have the most adverse effect on the 70-80 eval templates people run on their hamstring-wep mages.

3. Add tactics into the hamstring formula. Currently 80+ points in any two of Anatomy, Arms Lore, Forensic Eval, Tracking and Wrestling will give the player the option to hamstring.
With hamstring being so useful, this has prompted many mages to play 8 skill templates, with resist lowered to accommodate tracking. This reduced resist is part of the problem with the 20% templates. The lowered resist makes the 20% templates even stronger vs the hamstring mages, forcing everyone from their hamstring mages onto 20% mages in group PvP.
By including tactics in the formula, people could play weapon mages without compromising on resist. If option 2 (lowered spell max) was preferred to option 1 (10% cap) then I think this would be a required additional change.

Likely outcomes for solution 3:
All mages in the field will be running 100 resist, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the 20% sdi templates.
In combination with either of the previously explained solutions, would make 7x weapon mages a viable alternative to the 20%.

That's how I see it, over to you for solution 4 and beyond.
 
#45
I've always said this game should actually be called Magery Online for as much favor as mages always had because it's always been OP but we don't call it OP for two reasons:

1. We've only ever known magery to be OP, so it's not seen as that.
2. Majority of players use it because it's OP and don't want it changed because they'd be asking to nerf themselves... what about the rest of us?? Here's my opinion:

I find it absolutely ridiculous that if a mage wearing no armor is gonna dump on me and kill me in 3 spells in 5 seconds that he can fricking dodge a single swing from my sword or take less than 50% damage. It's always seemed stupid to me and frustrating... Are these mages ninjas? No, but they can dodge a sword and take a hit from a weapon like they are made of iron. Come on.... It makes it nearly impossible for me to have a fighting chance 1 v 1.. I've literally fought and died to mages who do not move and spam mind blast to kill me because i missed them like 3x in a row and the 2 times i do land hits, it hardly phases them.... Give me a realistic chance please - mages get used to wearing armor or get used to being cut in half because I've had to be used to being melted into mage goo for the last 20 years. And let's be honest mana regens way too fast. Why even run out of mana at this point? I don't think i've ever seen a mage run out of mana and run away to med; they med while they move -- so why dont i heal that way as a warrior??

And let's not forget that it's RARE to fight a mage in pvp solo. It's usually at least 2 of them in voice synch dumping. Yeah, really makes sense to give them more damage... sheesh.

If mages keep more offensive power, then remove their impossible defensive abilities...

Leave the 20% but remove things like mind blast doing more damage to players wearing heavy armor.. slow down meditation, something to shift the viable pvp class options other than mages!

There, I said it... And it's probably not what the poll is even about. I just hate that mages are not the glass cannons they are supposed to be because they dont shatter if I get close enough to hit them without missing 4x!! I'm a grand master swordsman and I'm not accurate enough to strike feeble magic casters?! Daah! It kills me! lol

EDIT: My perspective comes from open world pvp against PK's... I am realizing that this thread seems more focused on the PvP Systems in place like struggles and sieges.. I honestly don't have much input on those; I think open world pvp and town pvp is much different so I can only comment on the open world PvP in this sense.
i completely agree with this gentleman
 
#46
i completely agree with this gentleman
Except some of Path's best PvP'rs are dexxers... Mages only look OP, when they get into a group, and can stack/sync damage - ever stand toe to toe with 3 20% damage archers? you don't stay alive very long either... People don't run damage archers ultimately because of their chance to whiff and do zero damage. Just like there's a chance for 3 mages to hit low damage..
 
#47
Except some of Path's best PvP'rs are dexxers... Mages only look OP, when they get into a group, and can stack/sync damage - ever stand toe to toe with 3 20% damage archers? you don't stay alive very long either... People don't run damage archers ultimately because of their chance to whiff and do zero damage. Just like there's a chance for 3 mages to hit low damage..
Agreed - although, even if those 3 mages hit low damage, 2 magic arrows and a lightning that's comin next between my biscuits and I'm gravy brother -- the wall of stone ensures a humiliating death too lol.

In truth, I don't know if my rant really pertains to the heart of this poll/discussion or not, as it's mostly a solo view out in dungeons for right now. A lot different than the huge pvp battles and struggles, I think, that feel a wider-spread impact on the subject. Hope it doesn't influence derailment at all, it just seemed like the right time to vent about my 20 yr old whiff problem on these gandalfs. :p Not to complain but rather learn, but I really just can't kill a mage 1v1 with melee. I just can't produce enough damage when I do connect to get them. If I can get them on the run, they escape every time with teleport too. But again, I'm talkin 1v1 and I think this is more about the big struggles :D I'll direct this energy at the right thread when it comes along heh!
 
#48
Agreed - although, even if those 3 mages hit low damage, 2 magic arrows and a lightning that's comin next between my biscuits and I'm gravy brother -- the wall of stone ensures a humiliating death too lol.

In truth, I don't know if my rant really pertains to the heart of this poll/discussion or not, as it's mostly a solo view out in dungeons for right now. A lot different than the huge pvp battles and struggles, I think, that feel a wider-spread impact on the subject. Hope it doesn't influence derailment at all, it just seemed like the right time to vent about my 20 yr old whiff problem on these gandalfs. :p Not to complain but rather learn, but I really just can't kill a mage 1v1 with melee. I just can't produce enough damage when I do connect to get them. If I can get them on the run, they escape every time with teleport too. But again, I'm talkin 1v1 and I think this is more about the big struggles :D I'll direct this energy at the right thread when it comes along heh!
i'm totally with you on this, and i always played a mage on every shard i played, cause i like magery, but it really makes no sense to me being able to dodge so many hits. i'm a mage, i'm supposed to be fragile cause i'm slippery with so many utility spells and i hit hard.
 
#50
I think many of our dexxers who tear down mages 1v1, would disagree to your sentiments @Sir. There is a bit of an art to it on the server though, the starter being plate mail make you extra ripe for mind blast, removing that lead with a 2H hit for damage, then switch to an interrupt weapon. Bandage timers, STR and heal pots come into play..

Anyways we digress.
 
#52
Just had a thought that is more up Outlands alley...

In Beta we had magic spellbooks adding to spell damage, if you had a magic spellbook equipped for 30+ seconds then you could get the benefit of the bonus damage it provided (not the mana refund however).

I purpose bringing back the pvp spellbook mechanics and scale them to inherit whatever SDI is taken from the current skill bonus'. All of a sudden vanq books become useful and sought after, perhaps scribes could even craft tier spellbooks from colored leather, scaled the same way colored weapons/armor are.
 
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#54
Why i cant vote? I vote to to stay how it is 20%. If it have to change something is the dam magic resist skill. In OSI a GM skill could at least stop one paralise spell and here that doesnt happen
In terms of paralyze, it's more powerful than a hamstring when chained - they need to really fix the mechanics - I'd propose progressive paralyze mechanics, something along the lines of every time your paralyzed within 15 seconds of the last time, you have (Attempt# * .5) - .5 * (resist/100) to resist the next one.

It'd look like this in practice:
1579184323657.png
 

Attachments

#56
I just don't know who you are, for someone with such strong opinions I'd have expected you to make yourself known in game.

/ GM clx
Well that makes us equal then as I don't know who you are either.
It looks like the 20% is staying so we'll see if your cringey statement "Within 3 months, without change, every single person doing group PvP (mounted) will be running a scribe mage." comes true, or if it was just complete BS. Be sure to check back within stated time slot. ;)

/ GM Beowulf
 
#57
but, if you guys do not remove it, then dexxers will have no utility in group fights, they already do not have any, if there is a 20% damage bonus, they will be completely useless. I feel like I am useless with a lethal dexxer in most fights right now and all the groups call targets with mages like 4-5 of them dumping at the same target at the same time, if you guys buff this even more there is no chance for dexxers, I mean the guild Path will quit the game completely if you do this imo. Lol.
This guy doesnt even understand whats going on in this poll , nonetheless actual game mechanics.
 
#58
All these ppl spouting stuff that don't know anything. The most common template between guilds that actually pvp often is scribe/track... If you're not Anarchy/C2W/SoF/1ce/BB/DOK/PEC you are spouting nonsense. If you think 8% hally builds are the normal in actual pvp you're greatly mistaken. It definitely shouldn't be removed, but 20% is too high. You can drop ppl from 3 explosion weaken combo easily. 3v3+ 20% dmg mages are by far the best. Also FS hits for 40+ vs gm resist with 20% sdi. If you think the hally build is normal again, you're mistaken. A few of us run halberds still, more b/c of the fact it's a fun template. The people in it to win it are running 20% sdi mages.

Akasha you think 3 spell avg per kill is fine?

My best KDA char by far is my scribe b/c of how fucking strong it is.

IMO pvp cap all around should be lowered to 10% cap. Dexxer / mage / wep / spell doesn't matter.
3 spell kill is not the average. Not to mention your post is a 4 spell kill. But even that is not the average. Its the upper end. Also people can definitely just hold down their gheal pot macro and live through anything even remotely not a perfect synch . We also already talked about restr potting after they weaken.
 
#60
View attachment 3179

Just for some context, I ran the numbers based on the EX/EB damage changes on April 1st.
Your talking max damage of 35 and average of 29 at GM Resist, and max 36 avg 30 at 80 resist.

Hamstring Tank mages are running 8% damage already, plus have sustained damage with their weapons, on top of it, and your calling the scribe mage over powered, for getting an extra 2-3 damage on a spell, with no sustained damage?

This graph is definitely incorrect. I main a 20% sdi scribe mage, and The min is definitely not 30 nor is the max 40.

I very consistently hit people for as low as 25 and 26 and I have never hit anyone for more than 38 and that is rare AF. Over thousands of casts.

Unless I am just reading this thing wrong.