POLL: What do you think about the 20% Spell Damage Increase bonus in PvP?
- Thread starter Owyn
- Start date
Issue:
20% spell damage increase mages dominating group field PvP - beginning at 3 per side, with their power and importance increasing the bigger the teams get.
Potential solutions:
1. Cap at 10% or 12%, not 20%. The individual skill caps would not change, so 100 inscription would still give 10%, for example, but having 100 inscription and 100 tracking would only give 10%, not 20%.
Likely Outlcomes for solution 1:
Increased template variation. The current meta of scribe/track mages in the field will end. They will need to choose between scribe or tracking, two very powerful skills, and likely supplement their choice with alchemy, parry, healing or even poison. The ‘old’ combination would still also be a worthwhile choice. Still giving 10% SDI, tracking ability, and hamstring.
A slight reduction in the power of single spell drops from a team - that means the power of mass explos, EBs, or flamestrikes.
Some small-scale uproar from people that like their track/scribe mages (and rightly so, it is the strongest template)
2. Reduce top end spell damage for Explo, EB, and FS. Currently the range is 25-33 for explo and EB. Dropping it to 25-30 would drop the maximum damage from 38 to 35. A similar change would be made for FS.
Likely outcomes for solution 2:
Unlikely to affect the templates used in group, scribe/track remains the best field template, but slightly less effective - as are all mage templates.
Changes things for all templates and players. Influences PvM and dueling and smaller scale fighting.
Will have the most adverse effect on the 70-80 eval templates people run on their hamstring-wep mages.
3. Add tactics into the hamstring formula. Currently 80+ points in any two of Anatomy, Arms Lore, Forensic Eval, Tracking and Wrestling will give the player the option to hamstring.
With hamstring being so useful, this has prompted many mages to play 8 skill templates, with resist lowered to accommodate tracking. This reduced resist is part of the problem with the 20% templates. The lowered resist makes the 20% templates even stronger vs the hamstring mages, forcing everyone from their hamstring mages onto 20% mages in group PvP.
By including tactics in the formula, people could play weapon mages without compromising on resist. If option 2 (lowered spell max) was preferred to option 1 (10% cap) then I think this would be a required additional change.
Likely outcomes for solution 3:
All mages in the field will be running 100 resist, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the 20% sdi templates.
In combination with either of the previously explained solutions, would make 7x weapon mages a viable alternative to the 20%.
That's how I see it, over to you for solution 4 and beyond.
20% spell damage increase mages dominating group field PvP - beginning at 3 per side, with their power and importance increasing the bigger the teams get.
Potential solutions:
1. Cap at 10% or 12%, not 20%. The individual skill caps would not change, so 100 inscription would still give 10%, for example, but having 100 inscription and 100 tracking would only give 10%, not 20%.
Likely Outlcomes for solution 1:
Increased template variation. The current meta of scribe/track mages in the field will end. They will need to choose between scribe or tracking, two very powerful skills, and likely supplement their choice with alchemy, parry, healing or even poison. The ‘old’ combination would still also be a worthwhile choice. Still giving 10% SDI, tracking ability, and hamstring.
A slight reduction in the power of single spell drops from a team - that means the power of mass explos, EBs, or flamestrikes.
Some small-scale uproar from people that like their track/scribe mages (and rightly so, it is the strongest template)
2. Reduce top end spell damage for Explo, EB, and FS. Currently the range is 25-33 for explo and EB. Dropping it to 25-30 would drop the maximum damage from 38 to 35. A similar change would be made for FS.
Likely outcomes for solution 2:
Unlikely to affect the templates used in group, scribe/track remains the best field template, but slightly less effective - as are all mage templates.
Changes things for all templates and players. Influences PvM and dueling and smaller scale fighting.
Will have the most adverse effect on the 70-80 eval templates people run on their hamstring-wep mages.
3. Add tactics into the hamstring formula. Currently 80+ points in any two of Anatomy, Arms Lore, Forensic Eval, Tracking and Wrestling will give the player the option to hamstring.
With hamstring being so useful, this has prompted many mages to play 8 skill templates, with resist lowered to accommodate tracking. This reduced resist is part of the problem with the 20% templates. The lowered resist makes the 20% templates even stronger vs the hamstring mages, forcing everyone from their hamstring mages onto 20% mages in group PvP.
By including tactics in the formula, people could play weapon mages without compromising on resist. If option 2 (lowered spell max) was preferred to option 1 (10% cap) then I think this would be a required additional change.
Likely outcomes for solution 3:
All mages in the field will be running 100 resist, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the 20% sdi templates.
In combination with either of the previously explained solutions, would make 7x weapon mages a viable alternative to the 20%.
That's how I see it, over to you for solution 4 and beyond.
Except some of Path's best PvP'rs are dexxers... Mages only look OP, when they get into a group, and can stack/sync damage - ever stand toe to toe with 3 20% damage archers? you don't stay alive very long either... People don't run damage archers ultimately because of their chance to whiff and do zero damage. Just like there's a chance for 3 mages to hit low damage..
Agreed - although, even if those 3 mages hit low damage, 2 magic arrows and a lightning that's comin next between my biscuits and I'm gravy brother -- the wall of stone ensures a humiliating death too lol.
In truth, I don't know if my rant really pertains to the heart of this poll/discussion or not, as it's mostly a solo view out in dungeons for right now. A lot different than the huge pvp battles and struggles, I think, that feel a wider-spread impact on the subject. Hope it doesn't influence derailment at all, it just seemed like the right time to vent about my 20 yr old whiff problem on these gandalfs.
Not to complain but rather learn, but I really just can't kill a mage 1v1 with melee. I just can't produce enough damage when I do connect to get them. If I can get them on the run, they escape every time with teleport too. But again, I'm talkin 1v1 and I think this is more about the big struggles I'll direct this energy at the right thread when it comes along heh!
In truth, I don't know if my rant really pertains to the heart of this poll/discussion or not, as it's mostly a solo view out in dungeons for right now. A lot different than the huge pvp battles and struggles, I think, that feel a wider-spread impact on the subject. Hope it doesn't influence derailment at all, it just seemed like the right time to vent about my 20 yr old whiff problem on these gandalfs.
Not to complain but rather learn, but I really just can't kill a mage 1v1 with melee. I just can't produce enough damage when I do connect to get them. If I can get them on the run, they escape every time with teleport too. But again, I'm talkin 1v1 and I think this is more about the big struggles I'll direct this energy at the right thread when it comes along heh!
Agreed - although, even if those 3 mages hit low damage, 2 magic arrows and a lightning that's comin next between my biscuits and I'm gravy brother -- the wall of stone ensures a humiliating death too lol.
In truth, I don't know if my rant really pertains to the heart of this poll/discussion or not, as it's mostly a solo view out in dungeons for right now. A lot different than the huge pvp battles and struggles, I think, that feel a wider-spread impact on the subject. Hope it doesn't influence derailment at all, it just seemed like the right time to vent about my 20 yr old whiff problem on these gandalfs. Not to complain but rather learn, but I really just can't kill a mage 1v1 with melee. I just can't produce enough damage when I do connect to get them. If I can get them on the run, they escape every time with teleport too. But again, I'm talkin 1v1 and I think this is more about the big struggles I'll direct this energy at the right thread when it comes along heh!
In truth, I don't know if my rant really pertains to the heart of this poll/discussion or not, as it's mostly a solo view out in dungeons for right now. A lot different than the huge pvp battles and struggles, I think, that feel a wider-spread impact on the subject. Hope it doesn't influence derailment at all, it just seemed like the right time to vent about my 20 yr old whiff problem on these gandalfs.
Not to complain but rather learn, but I really just can't kill a mage 1v1 with melee. I just can't produce enough damage when I do connect to get them. If I can get them on the run, they escape every time with teleport too. But again, I'm talkin 1v1 and I think this is more about the big struggles I'll direct this energy at the right thread when it comes along heh!
I think many of our dexxers who tear down mages 1v1, would disagree to your sentiments @Sir. There is a bit of an art to it on the server though, the starter being plate mail make you extra ripe for mind blast, removing that lead with a 2H hit for damage, then switch to an interrupt weapon. Bandage timers, STR and heal pots come into play..
Anyways we digress.
Anyways we digress.
Just had a thought that is more up Outlands alley...
In Beta we had magic spellbooks adding to spell damage, if you had a magic spellbook equipped for 30+ seconds then you could get the benefit of the bonus damage it provided (not the mana refund however).
I purpose bringing back the pvp spellbook mechanics and scale them to inherit whatever SDI is taken from the current skill bonus'. All of a sudden vanq books become useful and sought after, perhaps scribes could even craft tier spellbooks from colored leather, scaled the same way colored weapons/armor are.
In Beta we had magic spellbooks adding to spell damage, if you had a magic spellbook equipped for 30+ seconds then you could get the benefit of the bonus damage it provided (not the mana refund however).
I purpose bringing back the pvp spellbook mechanics and scale them to inherit whatever SDI is taken from the current skill bonus'. All of a sudden vanq books become useful and sought after, perhaps scribes could even craft tier spellbooks from colored leather, scaled the same way colored weapons/armor are.
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In terms of paralyze, it's more powerful than a hamstring when chained - they need to really fix the mechanics - I'd propose progressive paralyze mechanics, something along the lines of every time your paralyzed within 15 seconds of the last time, you have (Attempt# * .5) - .5 * (resist/100) to resist the next one.
It'd look like this in practice:
It'd look like this in practice:
Attachments
Well that makes us equal then as I don't know who you are either.
It looks like the 20% is staying so we'll see if your cringey statement "Within 3 months, without change, every single person doing group PvP (mounted) will be running a scribe mage." comes true, or if it was just complete BS. Be sure to check back within stated time slot.
/ GM Beowulf
It looks like the 20% is staying so we'll see if your cringey statement "Within 3 months, without change, every single person doing group PvP (mounted) will be running a scribe mage." comes true, or if it was just complete BS. Be sure to check back within stated time slot.
/ GM Beowulf
3 spell kill is not the average. Not to mention your post is a 4 spell kill. But even that is not the average. Its the upper end. Also people can definitely just hold down their gheal pot macro and live through anything even remotely not a perfect synch . We also already talked about restr potting after they weaken.
This graph is definitely incorrect. I main a 20% sdi scribe mage, and The min is definitely not 30 nor is the max 40.
I very consistently hit people for as low as 25 and 26 and I have never hit anyone for more than 38 and that is rare AF. Over thousands of casts.
Unless I am just reading this thing wrong.