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Too much stealing!

After going out of town to only get stolen from, I went back to the forums to read more about what stealing is like on this server. I truly excited about building my characters after 20 years off of UO..., trying all the revamped skils here, and exploring the awesome new places on this new map (awesome map btw).

I realized pretty quickly that it’s simply not worth my time. If I can’t explore the map for 1 minutes without getting my bandages and reagents stolen by a pair of thieves, what are the chances of being able to explore a lower level dungeon without getting ALL OF MY STUFF STOLEN? Why the heck does "tracking" work for PKs, but if I want to "track" a theif, I'm out of luck. They just walk up to you like "Howdy explorer! Can I lend you a hand" and give you old one-two steal and then just dissapear. They are probably hacking the server. Why can't I SEE these people? What the heck.

I SHOULD NOT have to worry about being my black pearls stolen by a theif. EVER. I SHOULD be able to carry around expensive items and weapons in my backpack where ever I want! No part of that is fun. It's pure GRIEF. Even if they don’t steal all of my pearls through my 15 nested trapped pouches, it ends up being a waste of time if I die or even worse if they steal my recall reagents and I have to... walk back to down. WALK! Can you believe the waste of time!!!!

For those of you who are pro-theif and that it keeps people on their toes: I disagree. I play games like this to either hunt monsters or relentlessly kill other players who are minding their own business. Sure, people will say "oh but it's part of UO", but that’s obviously false. Simple as.

The challenge for me is searching out monsters for awesome loot or finding weak newbs that I can slaughter over and over again, not to worry about my friggin recall reagents getting stolen, etc.

Some posts on this forum have said that you just need to plan for thieves. Use tracking. Have 20 to 30 layers of trapped pouches. Be "careful" in town (hah, who has time for that?) Travel in groups. Never farm or hunt for more than 20 minutes at a time without going to the bank. Tracking? I have to waste skill points on Tracking!! Are you SERIOUS?!?. We shouldn’t have to travel only in groups. I don't have time for friends. We shouldn’t have to go to a bank or house every 20 minutes. UO has always been about playing the way you want, and I don't want stealing in this game!

This very well may be the best UO server around, but you’ve limited your player base by not having a non-thief shard. The vast majority of players won’t make a post like this; they’ll just leave and never return. For every one new player like me who takes the time to register on the forum and write a comment, there are 25 others who leave without saying anything. [Anyone who has studied any customer service industry knows that 4% of dissatisfied customers complain; the other 96% stop doing business with you without saying anything.] I’m not upset, but I am disappointed. I’ll move on to a different server that has a non-thief shard or at least a map that pinpoints where everyone with a stealing skill over over 50 is on the map so we can be prepared.
 

AreYouKidden

Legendary
I'm confused.. this posted in a thread complaining about thieves being trammefied...
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Which side of the fence are you actually on?
 
I'm not quite sure if this is a sincere post, but I'll bite anyways. Please give our server some more time.

YES, you are correct, some thieves can be jerks and take stacks of band-aids or reagents and annoy the living bejesus out of you. But they are far and few between.... it doesn't happen often. If you find someone doing that, just move on to a different spot. Same logic applies to murderers, if your spot is being frequented, move on to another spot for a while. While I detest thieves and murderers, they are needed and serve a purpose. Kind of like house flys and cockroaches. :)

If I had to pull a wild number out of my hat, I'd have to say at LEAST 50% of the difficulty in UO is overcome by properly preparing yourself. Stick around, I think you just pulled a bad card of running into the wrong thieves too many times. If your not willing to properly prepare, then you leave yourself open to vulnerabilities. With the storage shelf and other items like this, the time to prepare is miniscule. A lot of preparation (macros & loadouts) are a one-time time investment and, once done, never need to be done again. I think I have my restock time down to under 10 seconds now.
 

JellyBeanBen

Neophyte
I miss being able to stand next to someone and talk to them... but I can't because 90% of the time they are just a thief. I would also like to use a bank outside of the arena.

Basically its just a worthless hurdle for new players to jump through, for the entertainment of griefers. You can't AFK farm gold but you can AFK steal from the moongate with a script. I guess its just part of UO so I put up with up but its stupid. Dungeons thieves are also annoying...
 

JellyBeanBen

Neophyte
Literally logged in after writing this, got an item worth like 50 gold stolen from someone camping the runebooks... just griefing, so lame
 

AreYouKidden

Legendary
So do you think UO had it wrong introducing stealing into the game? If not, what should stealing do?
I'm often conflicted with my battling opinions on it - I personally will never play a thief, I also play an anti-PK - so the gameplay offers little to no value at all to me.. I've always touted the real soul behind UO - is the freedom to do, or be anything - which in theory encompasses both PK's & thiefs.. The one thing I have no time for however is griefing, and while that has a different definition for many people, I look at griefing as anything that involves targeting a specific player, over and over again.

I get stolen by a thief, I laugh a little, get annoyed, then move on.. If I have a thief, popping every trap pouch, or just stealing from me over and over in town, with little way to counter it, and them risking nothing - I feel like I'm being griefed, and that's why I can appreciate the systems like suspicion, or making trap pouches unpoppable as empty, as means to curb the griefing with allowing thieves to exist.

I think thieving & PK'n definitely have a place, but you have to balance the freedom of play against the long term health of the server - if they are free reign on both thieving & PK'n, people will leave. If they are punished so severely, that no one will play a thief or PK, then the server grows stale.. It's a very hard balance to find, and one that you'll never get agreement on from both sides, but I can at least appreciate that staff have tried to make a balance, and adjusted along the way..

Btw - lots of thieves get away with stealing stuff in dungeons, or other places.. They are still quite polarizing, lots of complains daily about how easy thieves have it, then lots of complaints daily about how thieves are so severely gimped... I think Stimulus hits the nail on the head, even he himself sits on both sides of the fence throwing stones.. :eek:
 
What about easing some of the barriers to stealing if we address the griefing part of it:

Easier Revenge:
- Using the stealing skill also applies a hamstring effect to player attempting to steal.
- Bring back Perma Gray status to anyone you steal from

Anit-Griefing:
- Apply suspicion at a player level. (Ex: You cannot steal from this person for another X timeframe, they have recently been stolen from and they are highly suspicious OR apply it to the theif for the same player)

Just throwing out ideas.
 

Pen

Novice
What about easing some of the barriers to stealing if we address the griefing part of it:

Easier Revenge:
- Using the stealing skill also applies a hamstring effect to player attempting to steal.
- Bring back Perma Gray status to anyone you steal from

Anit-Griefing:
- Apply suspicion at a player level. (Ex: You cannot steal from this person for another X timeframe, they have recently been stolen from and they are highly suspicious OR apply it to the theif for the same player)

Just throwing out ideas.
ya more gimps to the most gimped class..
 
ya more gimps to the most gimped class..
Those are added in ALONG WITH removing some of the barriers that exist for thieving that are in place now. The discussion would be more useful if you provide some possible solutions or ideas instead of just complaining @Pen .
 

Pen

Novice
Those are added in ALONG WITH removing some of the barriers that exist for thieving that are in place now. The discussion would be more useful if you provide some possible solutions or ideas instead of just complaining @Pen .
I have already added many ideas in other threads that owyn was watching and never responded to.. thieves are done here.. They arent gonna help a class everyone complains about even tho it is like 30% of the UO experience.. there is plenty of MMOs that you can farm without worrying about ur backpack and its not like ur even getting super rares (1 in 1 million drop) stole from you.. Set loot bag to trapped pouch bury under 4 other trapped pouches thieves never touch you again. Cant fight archers now cause they have unstealable arrows.. everything they do is a nerf to thieves. They wont even allow a 1 second window for a disarm thief to steal weapons... Let alone the 200 points Do nothing unlike every other skill in the game.
 
I have already added many ideas in other threads that owyn was watching and never responded to.. thieves are done here.. They arent gonna help a class everyone complains about even tho it is like 30% of the UO experience.. there is plenty of MMOs that you can farm without worrying about ur backpack and its not like ur even getting super rares (1 in 1 million drop) stole from you.. Set loot bag to trapped pouch bury under 4 other trapped pouches thieves never touch you again. Cant fight archers now cause they have unstealable arrows.. everything they do is a nerf to thieves. They wont even allow a 1 second window for a disarm thief to steal weapons... Let alone the 200 points Do nothing unlike every other skill in the game.
Squeaky wheel gets the oil, man.
 

Pen

Novice
Do you even have a thief? the current mech. makes you steal from ppl who dont understand how to spend 2 mins to thief-proof themselves. So thieves end up griefing New players. Cause you are never gonna find an experienced player just running around with anything of value in an open pack or easy to get to..

and Since you cant steal from trapped pouches.. you cant even que an Item on a corpse and steal it after they pick it up..

Stealing has strictly come down to me stealing stam pots so you cant run..
 
Do you even have a thief? the current mech. makes you steal from ppl who dont understand how to spend 2 mins to thief-proof themselves. So thieves end up griefing New players. Cause you are never gonna find an experienced player just running around with anything of value in an open pack or easy to get to..

and Since you cant steal from trapped pouches.. you cant even que an Item on a corpse and steal it after they pick it up..

Stealing has strictly come down to me stealing stam pots so you cant run..
So you have addressed some points that are wrong with the class. At this point you can

1) Give up on the class
2) Offer ideas and solutions to fix the class

It seems to me we have to find a solution that works for thieves but doesn't promote griefing.
 

Pen

Novice
How do you find something that doesn't promote griefing on a pure griefing class.. ? Any kind of buff or change that helps or doesnt nerf them.. will cause discord to go crazy..

just remove stealing at this point